10 Most Annoying Things Christians Say to Pagans, Witches, & Wiccans

Updated on April 19, 2018
modernalchemyst profile image

I am a writer of witchery and am interested in all aspects of religious history and expression.

Christianity and Paganism

Christianity and Paganism often Clash Beliefs
Christianity and Paganism often Clash Beliefs | Source

To those of you who read the title and are thinking, "Hey! Why are you picking on Christians?" the answer is rather simple (though "picking" on anyone certainly isn't my intention.) Since coming out of the "broom closet" (and coming out of the closet as a bisexual woman long before that), I've noticed that the most vociferous attackers of Paganism online are Christians. I don't have anything against the Christian faith, but the simple truth is, it's not people of the Jewish faith quoting off-topic passages of the Torah on our message boards, it's not atheists telling us to turn away from our "evil ways," and it's not Hindus who spam our websites en masse by proselytizing. The Christian call to evangelize combined with the rampant bigotry towards Paganism and witchcraft in general within the Christian Church has led to what often feels like a witch hunt online.

When I first began researching Paganism, I wanted to reach out to others in the online Pagan community to ask questions and gain from their experience, but I was intimidated by the slew of Bible passages and all-caps rants about the "evils" of "devil worship" that seemed to plague every Youtube comments section, message board, and Tumblog on Paganism. It's one thing to share your beliefs in a respectful and intellectual manner on a website that is dedicated to the discussion of inter-faith topics. It is entirely another to go into someone else's "territory," which is what a niche website is, and force your beliefs down people's throats.

One recent example of this is a specifically Pagan blog I was reading recently. A relatively new witch was asking for advice which she clearly solicited from other Pagans and witches. She was met with a barrage of Christians spamming the comments thread with lengthy and out of context Bible passages, e-shouting all myriad of ignorant and bigoted comments. She never asked for their opinion.

In light of what seems like an ever-increasing epidemic, and understanding that there are Christians who truly don't realize that their online behavior towards the Pagan community is both counterproductive and just plain rude, I want to put this list out there to illustrate some of the worst (and unfortunately common) things that many Christians say in an attempt to "convert' Pagans. These are personal pet peeves, and I don't pretend to speak for the whole Pagan community, however.

For Pagans

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1. You Just Hate Christians/Christianity

I dislike some Christians, just as I dislike some Pagans, Deists, Atheists, etc.. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are Christians, though, but rather who they are as people. In fact, I grew up as a Christian. Literally my entire family is composed of Evangelical, Charismatic Christians who belong either to non-denominational or Assemblies of God churches. I went to a Christian college, so a good majority of my friends are Christians. In fact, I'm ENGAGED to a Christian. Yes, I'm a Pagan engaged to a Christian, but that's a Hub for another day.

Admittedly, there are some of us in the Pagan community who have unfair animosity towards Christians. It's not an excuse, but it doesn't exactly come out of a vacuum. Most of us deal with attacks on our spirituality, morality, and sometimes our very physical safety on a daily basis, especially in the areas of the world that are very predominantly Christian. While most Pagans try to judge people on an individual basis, you have to understand that the moment a Christian inquires about that "star" hanging around our neck, there is going to be a moment of nervous pause while wondering if they're going to try to "witness" to us by randomly quoting Scripture, suddenly look at us like we're possessed, or worse.

The Bible Is Not Part of Paganism

Bringing a Bible to a Pagan debate is NOT effective!
Bringing a Bible to a Pagan debate is NOT effective! | Source

2. You just haven't read the Holy Bible! Let me share this verse with you... Well, actually, I have read the Bible, many times. The NIV, the KJV, the NLT, and the Message, to be precise. I've also studied the Bible in its original languages and cultural contexts. I've written papers on the Bible, debated with some of the foremost Christian scholars, and I even have a degree from a Christian university. I think I've given the Bible a fair shake and, unfortunately, I find that I know the Bible better than most of the Christians who quote it at me.

3. If You Were Open to God's Word, You'd Turn Away From Paganism/Witchcraft

No. I was open. In fact, I was so desperate to be a "good Christian" in my earlier years that I went so far as to perform self-hypnosis in an attempt to make myself "feel it." Assuming that you know a Pagan's spiritual and life journey and that just because they didn't come to the same conclusion as you, that Christianity is "the truth," is about as prideful as it gets and it's certainly not going to build any bridges.

Is Paganism Devil Worship?

All Pagans work at 666 Devil Worship Street, according to some Christians.
All Pagans work at 666 Devil Worship Street, according to some Christians. | Source

4. But Witchcraft Is Devil Worship!

The irony with this common comment is that most of us do not even believe in the devil, at least not in the way that Christians think. Most sects of Satanism don't even worship an actual devil and the ones that do view him very differently than you do. Trust me when I say, worshiping the Christian construct of the devil is not a part of any typical Pagan belief system.

5. Your Gods Are Just the Devil/Demons/Evil Spirits in Disguise!

I think this one comes from the fact that many gods/goddesses in various pantheons seem at times to be amoral or, at the very least, capable of actions that would generally be perceived as immoral. The thing is, Paganism has a much more nuanced view of morality than the Abrahamic faiths. It's not that we don't have morals in our personal lives, but divinity is not linked intrinsically to "good" or "evil" in most schools of paganism. There are some deities that air more on the side of one than the other, but Paganism regards balance between light and dark as a good thing, not a band thing.

By contrast, Christianity embraces only light, and many of us feel that such a belief system is limiting to both the human and divine experience. Our deities are complex. They have individual personalities, stories, and yes, sometimes flaws, but that complexity is why we are drawn to them. YOU may see them as demons and you may feel the need to make everything black or white, but in doing so, you negate one of the primary elements of pagan philosophy and prove that you really don't understand our faith at all. Don't be surprised when we don't respect your assessment of it.

6. "You Pagan Satanist Wiccan Witches..."

Yes, some of us are pagan Wiccan witches, but assuming that all pagans are this or that is an automatic giveaway that you haven't really researched what you're talking about. Some pagans are witches. Some pagans are Wiccans. Some Wiccans are Witches. Not all pagans are Wiccans or Witches, and not all Witches are Wiccan or pagan. It just doesn't work that way. Paganism is a philosophy and a spiritual path that encompasses many different religions, Wicca is a faith that is also pagan, and witchcraft is a practice. There are atheist and agnostic witches, Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist witches, and even Christian witches. A witch is just someone who practices Witchcraft. That's all, really. Some of us identify as Mages, Sorcerors, Ceremonial Magicians and Alchemists, and each label comes with its own meaning.

Within paganism, there are a variety of pantheons which a pagan may ascribe to exclusively, or along with one or more other pantheons. Before you label someone, get to know them. Ask them questions if it's appropriate in the context of your relationship, and don't assume you know what they believe just because you watched a documentary on witchcraft.

Witchcraft and Paganism Are Not Phases

Unless you can see into the future, don't accuse someone's faith of being a phase!
Unless you can see into the future, don't accuse someone's faith of being a phase! | Source

7. Wicca/Witchcraft/Paganism Is Just a Phase

For some people it is. But those people are not truly Wiccans, pagans, or witches. True faith is not a phase, and it does not rely on a label. Sometimes people latch onto paganism because they believe it's trendy and, once they realize that true paganism requires in-depth soul searching, study, and spiritual devotion, they back out. Oftentimes they back out because they weren't expecting the amount of persecution that often comes with being open about one's pagan faith.

It's one thing to be persecuted for a faith that is an intrinsic part of you, but it's another thing to be persecuted for a fad that you only latched onto for social points in the first place! That doesn't mean that paganism is a fad any more than Christianity, and believe me, there are plenty of people who claim to be Christians because the vast majority of the population is, or simply to avoid being judged by Christians at work, school, or home.

8. I Made a Witch Mad and Now I'm Afraid He/She Is Going to Curse Me! Help!

While I'm sure there are days all of us feel like putting a hex on that jerk who cut us off in traffic or took credit for our ideas at work, that's not how it works. We don't just go around cursing people left and right. In fact, Christians are much more likely to curse you. What, you say? Christians cursing people?? Yes, indeed. Remember the last time you prayed for God to "teach someone a lesson," or keep someone from doing something? Well, that's technically a curse. A curse is simply casting your intentions to some power outside of yourself in an effort to impede someone's free will. Christians do this all the time through prayer, and it takes nothing more than closing their eyes and sending a thought to their God.

The practice of cursing and hexing in witchcraft, however, is usually much more involved. Many (not all) of us use tools known as correspondences to work our crafts. Even a simple curse typically involves the use of one or more correspondences, and it must be done in a peaceful environment in which the witch is able to fully focus her intentions into the curse. Cursing is not something that is done on the fly. It takes a great amount of energy and, very often, the curse causes at least some negative repercussion to the witch, the least of which can be a drain of energy.

Another important aspect of cursing that most non-witches fail to understand is that many witches believe in something called the rule of 3. The rule of 3 states that whatever you put out into the universe comes back to you threefold. Some witches believe this to be a literal return of the curse multiplied by 3, while others feel that it's a more symbolic repercussion of negative actions taking place in the mind, body, and spirit. Not all witches believe in the rule of 3 by a long shot (myself included,) but many Wiccans do. The Wiccan rede also states, "An it harm none, do as ye will." For many witches, this is a prohibition against black magick, such as cursing, in all but the most extreme circumstances.

That's an awful lot to contend with just because someone cut you off in traffic, don't you think?

9. I Don't Believe in Witchcraft—Witchcraft Is Just Made Up/Imaginary/Silly

Strangely enough, I'll often hear 8 and 9 uttered within minutes of one another. Often those who put the least stock into witchcraft are the ones who fear its effects the most! You're certainly entitled to your opinion that witchcraft is not effective, but to claim that you don't believe it or that it's made up is a bit like saying that you don't think prayer exists. I may not think Christian prayer works, but I still acknowledge that Christians pray and thus, Christian prayer does in fact exist. Witchcraft is much the same. It works for us, just as your prayers work for you. No two Christians pray in exactly the same way (at least, I hope not!) and no two witches practice the Craft in exactly the same way. It's a personal experience. I, for one, believe without a doubt that magick is a real, natural, and powerful force in this world, even if we don't empirically understand all the laws by which it works and manifests.

Either way, just because you don't see the evidence that witchcraft is effective doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you. Much of witchcraft manifests internally, and helps us to meet our personal and spiritual goals. You wouldn't go up to someone and tell them that they're silly for praying or meditating, so refrain from making the claim that someone's Craft is ineffective just because YOU don't see the results that you EXPECT to see on the outside.

Witch Stereotypes

Stereotypes about witches run rampant!
Stereotypes about witches run rampant! | Source

10. You Don't Look/Act/Sound Like a Witch

Just as there is no one type of Christian, there is no one type of witch. Some of us practice in traditional garb, while others practice the Craft in jeans and a t-shirt. Some of us have high-pitched, enthusiastic voices while others of us have deep, husky voices and speak in formal ways. Some of us are goth, some of us are preppy, some of us are rockabilly, retro, or vintage, and others of us just do well enough to leave the house in matching socks. There is no "right way" to look or act like a witch, but that being said, there is nothing wrong with attempting to dress or behave like a "traditional" witch, either. For many people, wearing the traditional garb of their ancestral heritage helps them to get in touch with the cultural aspect of their practice, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I myself lean towards more formality in practice as a Ceremonial Magickian, but some of my best practicing witch friends prefer to practice in jeans and a comfy sweatshirt.

The media perpetuates plenty of stereotypes about what a witch is supposed to look like. From the lovely ladies of Charmed and Buffy to the wart-laden crone in Snow White, everyone seems to have an idea of what a witch looks like. The simple truth is, a witch looks like your next door neighbor whose subtle pentagram necklace you probably haven't even taken notice of while chatting about your gardens. A witch looks like the guy at the checkout counter who strikes up a conversation with you about the price of groceries these days. A witch looks like that soccer mom you sit next to at your kid's game. Witches are everywhere, just like you. Get to know us for who we are, and you'll learn a lot more than any movie or TV show will ever tell you.

The Pagan Quiz for Christians

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    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      100 minutes ago from Tasmania

      Ye Jehovahs Servant , whom the gods so despise that you fear exposure as to your real identity; and you so waste the time allotted to you in which to enjoy and marvel at this beautiful creation we call Mother Earth; desiring instead to worry your petty mind with superstitions and makebelieve - even worse you implant your negativity in the minds of your fellow beings; hack, hijacker or hindrance be gone with you. At least do some good in this world.

    • profile image

      Jehovahs Servant 

      16 hours ago

      Hmm funny this calls for wisdom

      I suggest you dont speak to christians as most of them dont really worship him either way. I would be afraid of speaking to those whom the father jehovah sends down to judge those heathens practicing idolatry. Darker times are luckier for those whose temporal enjoyment will last a short bit living on paradise in ignorance. Both you and your christians are the lawless ones.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      3 weeks ago from Tasmania

      No, I cannot do that.

    • profile image

      Agartha 

      3 weeks ago

      Alan please add me on facebook, my name Is Agartha nelson

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      4 weeks ago from Tasmania

      Hannan, surely the most moral thing any of us can do is help our neighbour turn their hellish circumstances into a heaven here on earth.

      You sound like the sort of person who can do just that.

    • profile image

      Hannan Zhou 

      4 weeks ago

      It's really annoying to anyone when people from other religions (mainly Christians) tell you that you're going to Hell for your beliefs. As if that's supposed to alarm people whose religion doesn't even include a Hell. Or Heaven. Or God. Or Jesus. Or any of those tortures that I'm going to go through for being an atheist hopefully witch-to-be.

    • profile image

      Kynthia 

      5 weeks ago

      Dear Anonymous: I am an eclectic witch. I enjoy a relationship with my creator (Catholics vall him God typically) and I follow the practices your Jesus taught for treating other people right.

      I detest religion, so, for me the answer would be no. However, ask yourself of you can practice witch craft and remain a Catholic.

      Only you, and you alone, can answer that question.

    • profile image

      Anonymous 

      6 weeks ago

      I am a Catholic and I stand by a lot of Catholic beliefs; however is it possible to believe in God and practice witchcraft without the ideas clashing?

    • profile image

      RockPath 

      2 months ago

      I just decided to become Pagan. Raised Christian my whole life, the strife I went through! I am so at peace with this decision, and unfortunately many in my family are "trolls" in cyberspace torturing the clan I am joining. Thank you for this article the information will be very helpful once I practice my faith freely.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 

      4 months ago from London England

      Merrie we meet.

      I am able to browse this site here in the 'West Country' however cannot access in Olde London towne'.

      The Limpet.

    • profile image

      joshua couldren 

      4 months ago

      first there is evil and good in all religions we witchs are not all evil even thow in a bible they tell you there is no good witch fact is there is good ones its all in the heart and intention of that person there using a one world religion to control people with fear wake up people you all been lied to the past 2 thousand 30 yrs pagans go back 800000bce and we aknowledge a mother goddess and many gods just like you would aknowledge we all have a earth mother naturaly you wouldnt exist think outside the box if you dont believe in magick you better not eat then cause your body does alchemy turning food into energy

    • profile image

      Haley Johnson 

      4 months ago

      I was a Christian, but a mouth or two ago, I became a Pagan. When I told my Christian parents that I was Pangan they became very angry with me, they told me that I was going to go to hell for my beliefs and that it was also devil worship. But I didn’t mind those comments because I knew that this was the right spiritual path for me and I know that Paganism or becoming a Pagan is about love and peace and what amzing things the beautiful Mother Earth has to offer us and when I became a Pagan I felt so much more love and peace. I am so happy that I bacame a Pagan.

    • profile image

      Jupider 

      5 months ago

      Well I’m Pagan and I think this is AWSOME, and sooo funny! People afraid of people just because of there religion, wait I got an idea next time thst jerk bullys me I’m just gunna say, “Well I’m a witch so if you do that again, I’ll curse you!” Hahahaha!!!!!

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      5 months ago from Tasmania

      And Dolly, you obviously have a kind heart and good intentions, but you do contradict yourself, primarily from your christian perspective. You have judged me, despite having said you don't. You think I am hateful, without knowing me at all. You think you need to pray for me....your stuff, your beliefs, from your perspective, not mine. You say you have love and respect for all. How funny that is...I have heard all that stuff within the church and I know how much it sounds so nice in the minds of many believers. When you are able to reach into the depths of your being and deal honestly with your Self, then you will see your religion in its true perspective.

      When you can allow, unconditionally, every and any one their free choice to believe/disbelieve, worship/not worship, pray/not pray, etc., and just let them follow their chosen path, then I will accept your statement about respect. That is more akin to the teaching of Christ. Have no fear for me or any pagan. Our journey is not your concern and you do not know the destiny of any other person.

      Wishing you an enlightening journey.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      5 months ago from Tasmania

      Give me paganism any day over christianity. There seems to be a strong element of fun in the former which has been bled out of the latter by puritan attitudes.

      I have no use for either right now but might explore wiccan concepts if and when life gets too dull .

    • profile image

      Dolly Mears 

      5 months ago

      Well said, Jim Blake. I definitely agree with you there. Sadly most christians believe its their job to judge others and its definitely not.. Judgement will come and every person will have to answer for their actions. Your given multiple opportunities to listen and take in what the gospel/bible shares, but at some point you won't have any chances left and then it will be worse for the ones who knew and still did not listen. The bible speaks about people who will reject the lords truth and still deny him. They will mock us christians and be offended by us. Why wouldn't we share the great news that anyone and everyone can have an everlasting life in heaven? SMH. Listen our jobs as christians is definitely to serve one another, love one another (as difficult as that can be at times), and to not judge each other. And for Alan, I will definitely pray for you. I believe you are one of the many that will reject even if you did see with your own eyes. And by that I mean a supernatural miracle. Idk when or where or what point in your life you became so hateful. I encourage everyone who reads this thread search out every possible thing that you feel may bring you comfort. I challenge you to do so and compare it with what the bible says. Once you've accepted this challenge and still hold dear to your pagan believes then that is ok too. That is ultimately your decision and no one else. I will definitely continue to have nothing but love and respect for everyone no matter what they believe, what color they are or what hateful attacks they feel they need to throw. Thanks for this interesting article. I hope everyone can learn to just get along. :-)

    • profile image

      Elizabeth Crocker 

      6 months ago

      Thank you for this! I'm a Christian witch, and I'm not afraid to share my experiences with my public school students. It's all part of educating our future! I love and respect all faiths, I dislike religion, as I see it is man made, not in our spiritual energy.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      6 months ago from Tasmania

      Yay a, it does not matter that some of your words and grammar are not perfect English. What you have said is so true, obvious and honest. Thank you.

    • profile image

      Yaya 

      6 months ago

      Christians are pagans. Christianity is the biggest occult out there. They don't even teach the truth about who god is instead they teach to worship jesus. Jesus said not to worship him and asked the people dont you know you are gods is it not written in the Torah that you are gods. John 10:34. Christianity has alot of misleading people in it. God is you. People need to become more aware. The abuse that Christians afflict on others beliefs is sick. And it does not mean it is true. Because alot of Christians are not aware of what is actually written in that book. And what that book was meant for. To make you more aware of there consciousness. But instead it has been used to harm, belittle, hate, bully all the opposite. Which if you really think of it was used as evil. Every word in that bible is a spell. The scriptures you speak is a spell the words are spells that is why it is called a SPELLing words. Words are powerful. How do people not grasp that. You read your scripture and say those incantations or you call on Jesus that is conjuring a deity. Jesus did not say to worship him at all not once does Jesus say to worship him. Instead he got upset and said isn't it written in the torah that you are gods. You are worthy just like him. But because people couldn't accept they were worthy to he got stoned. But that is one part of that religion in the Torah Jesus did not get crucified he lived a long happy life. A different doctrination. But they are all coming from the same book. Which this whole world is confused and each religion believes that there's is better than the rest and everyone who does not believe what they believe is going to hell and is going to be lost forever. In reality they are all lost forever. Because if you have hate for anything anyone you are in hell. You are lost. When you speak those words you are puting a curse on that person because they don't believe what you believe. If even just reading this makes you want to curse at me or tell me I am evil and going to hell. That shows you that you are sinning because you truly do not know who you are. Christians have been lost since they started burning people on a stick accusing everyone who believed in something else as a witch. Worshiping the devil because they knew and understood the truth, questioned the teachings Or not even that for women who stood up to a man was called a witch that all they had to say and they were burned on a stick. The translation was lost then. Still is lost. So because of the ignorance of the people... Because of the words lost in translation. Everyone is lost but why go by a book when you can go by your true spirit. Not ego but by your true consciousness awareness. You know truly in your spirit. Because when you are taught in church about something and in your spirit you feel deeply that is not true. Something is not right about that. So ask because it just does not feel right. Go with what your spirit is telling you and research yourself if you ask the pastor and they either dismiss you or make you more confused. So you can understand better. Because some of those pastors are blind themselves leading the sheep astray further and further away. I don't go by anyone's word I am a person who is seeking for truth and not settling because someone. Put fear and said I am going to be forever on a fiery brimstone lake. If you really read that book there is to kinds of God's in there there is a god love who loves all things and says to only eat plants and not animals. Then it changes to God of war who then eats animals and wants kill and hate. Sacrifice animals to this god to satisfy him. Again the clue is written in plain sight who god. John 10:34 either you will grasp it or not. The truth will set you free.

    • profile image

      Anna 

      7 months ago

      Hi! I just recently converted from christian to Pagan on my on behalf. I had heard people in my community talking about how pagan's were devil worshipers, and I immediately knew that has to be wrong. I looked into it more and I really found myself in the pagan community and was so interested in it. When I had told my christian friends, they didn't exactly like it, but I could tell they were more accepting than my church community. As I had come out as pan about two months before, I am continually criticized for what I believe and do. And I know I will be criticized for being an eleven year old pagan, but I know my beliefs, and the Christian community sucked to have so many people shoving their own beliefs down you throat at the same time. I feel like myself now, and like you, I am surrounded by people who don't accept me for me, but this article inspired me to stick up for myself instead of just roll my eyes at whatever people say. Thank you.

    • profile image

      Melissa burns 

      7 months ago

      Beautiful article i enjoyed reading it very much. I am new to tye path but know without a doubt i am headed in the right direction.Thank you

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      7 months ago

      Hey, Sharon. Yes, that is what they teach you in Christian college... to read the Bible and study it in its original context (Aramaic, Greek and Hebrew.) This doesn't require being fluent in all three languages. I'm sorry you find the idea of basic Christian education so untenable, but I assure you, this is something any passing student at a Christian college is able to do. Also, reading the Bible multiple times is really not that difficult... if it's a central part of your life, I'm actually surprised you haven't.

      By the by, I am actually a Christian now...no thanks to the "witness" of folks like you. I will pray for you, and that you don't turn any more people of from the faith with your confrontational spirit.

      Peace.

    • profile image

      Sharon 

      8 months ago

      You have read the bible several times and in all different languages ?? Come on I find that very hard to believe especially for some one who doesnt believe in God or Jesus. I think you are a liar.......

    • profile image

      Del Chambers 

      8 months ago

      This a very thoughtful, intelligent, and well-researched article. It was enlightening to me and was a pleasure to read. And you are absolutely right that some Christians are just as you have described, hateful, judgmental, and generally hypocritical with regard to their faith. As Jesus said of the Pharisees, "they neglect the weightier matters of the law” or when He said “they would strain at a gnat and swallow a camel” (which reveals the absurdity of their legalistic beliefs). Unfortunately such people exist, which makes life and conversations about spirituality so difficult. I have long wondered whether such people are really Christians, or whether they are just spiritual people who take up the label of Christian and then cherry-pick their legalistic set of rules that they want to live by and impose on everyone else as they charge through their militant “Christian” lives. But I feel no animosity toward such people. I feel only sorrow that they are missing out on the more enlightening, empowering, life-changing, etc. message of love that Jesus conveyed. And I feel sorrow that their life and actions are hurting people around them and people that do not adhere to or accept their beliefs. At times, my sorrow lapses into the type of “righteous anger” that Jesus felt when He kicked over the money changers’ tables. His anger was against the usury, the cheating, etc., that was going on in this little market. People there were greedily, insultingly taking advantage of the humble people that were coming (at no small risk and discomfort) from the far corners of this region in order to learn more about, to thank, and to worship God. And just at their most vulnerable, emotional, and reverent moment, these greedy, selfish-minded money changers were waiting “just like a spider” (to quote from a movie) to take advantage of these people by cheating or whatever monetary tactics that were at their disposal in order to unduly extract the meager coins these humble people had brought in order to donate to the temple or to buy animals for the sacrifices. If they had been doing honest, helpful, service-oriented business with a reasonable profit, Jesus would likely have left them alone. I often feel that such militant Christians are of this sort or the Scribes and Pharisees that Jesus was constantly trying to teach and reform. As a former pastor said one time during a sermon, “Just because you walk into a Burger King and announce that ‘I am a burger,’ does not make it true. The Bible even predicts that such people will arise at various times in human history, legalists that wouldn’t know Jesus if He right in front of them. Legalists who do not base their law and rules for living upon the foundation of LOVE. Christianity as Jesus taught was and is ABSOLUTELY NOT about imposing, imprisoning, judging, insulting, hurting, etc. And I can say confidently from my knowledge of the Bible, from the spiritual lessons that God has taught me, and from what I have learned in Christian service that God DOES NOT (I repeat for emphasis) DOES NOT HATE FAGS (or whatever label that misguided people impose upon people in the LGBQT community). And Jesus did NOT come to sacrifice and minister to only those “white, clean, sober, straight, etc.” Christians that can clean themselves up enough to “deserve” His grace (which they truly do not deserve – “If a man says, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?” In total, brutal, naked honesty, I do not understand all the truths in the Bible, including His attitude toward LGBQT people. But I know that He loves, values, and cherishes each and every one of these people infinitely, and He only wants to love them and to help them in whatever their lives lead them into. I’m not really sure if God completely blesses LGBQT for Christian service and blesses their relationships. I’m still waiting for some answers on this question. I am not the source of truth, nor do I know it perfectly enough to tell other people how they should live (so long as they are not hurting anybody or hurting themselves). And I would never in a million years impose upon the freedom or “pursuit of happiness” of any precious (this includes all LGBQT people) child of God. And I would not presume to know how God wants you to live. But I suspect that He does not reject any form of genuine love between people, and I’m confident that He is at work in this community, and confident that He recognizes and blesses any act of kindness or any love toward or from any LGBQT person. I hope my humble words are beneficial to this conversation.

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      Jim Blake 

      8 months ago

      As a sincere and devoted Christian who aims to study, rightly divide the Word of Truth, and live it as the Messiah of Israel commanded, I want to personally apologize for those who out of zeal and perhaps good intentions do not approach you or others in the Spirit of love that God intends and commands.

      You are very right on a few points I want to highlight specifically:

      People in the Christian faith are often rude and forceful, rather than loving, compassionate, understanding, and thoughtful, but they do so against the example of the Messiah of Israel and the commandment of scripture.

      Also, most people, in general, and Christians, in particular don't bother to read or understand the nuances of the faiths of people they are trying to reach, or teach. This leads to a false arguments and doesn't help matters, agreed. Pagans should follow your example in trying to understand the Christian faith well prior to writing Christians off or attacking them for their faith.

      Additionally, I submit to you that people identifying themselves as Christians should properly understand their own faith well, should study and show themselves approved, before trying to teach someone else. There are too many novice teachers. The same applies to pagans.

      Something very important to note is that going to Bible College, and even reading the Bible whether ten or a hundred times, in the original or a receptor language, does not mean the person understands the Word of God, lives it, or represents it properly. The Christian faith requires much soul searching, godly wisdom and instruction, proper exegesis of scripture rather than eisegesis, renouncing of man made traditions, and guidance and leading from the Holy Spirit, in order to live correctly and accurately align one's self to the commandments and laws of God.

      Thank you for taking the time to write this article and thank you for your attempt to be balanced and level headed in your presentation of your concerns and your views.

      We should all learn to always be ready to share things we have learned and believe with knowledge, wisdom, gentleness, and respect (some days I do better than others :-)) We also all need to be willing to test all thing and hold fast to that which is good.

      I hope that you remain open to thoughtful edification and criticism and that you will earnestly seek the truth, even if it means once again making a major shift in your faith position. Thank you for your time and consideration. Peace and grace to you

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      A Concerned Pagan 

      8 months ago

      My parents are trying to stop me believing in Paganism [Asatru] because they reckon TV and movies influence my thinking. Yes, I may watch Vikings the TV Show and the history channel, but only because it is purely entertainment. I discovered paganism before I started to binge-watch Vikings and all of that. I genuinely believe in being a pagan, not because of the external influence, but because it feels... right.

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      Whitney 

      8 months ago

      Okeirany- For a 13 yr old you are very well spoken. However, you have to learn more about the different paths. For example the rule of three is not excepted by all pagans. Some pagans do believe in the devil although many choose to call him Lucifer, such as I do. His name and existance is in ancient texts far older than the Bible. I follow the Draconian Path and more precisely the Primal Current. It seems to me from what you said that you're a Wiccan, but if you're not this still applies just put your path in the place of Wiccans. All Wiccans are pagans, but not all Pagans are Wiccans. The Rule of Three was a term started by Gerald Gardener, and while I believe there must be balance in my magick I don't believe anything I do will come back to me three fold. This is called malefic magick and while many people throw it around it is something that I believe should only be used in the most extreme circumstances. I believe in and worship Hecate, Lucifer, Sepheranz, and Belial; these being, in my belief the 4 most powerful Witch Gods, eventhough there are several other beings that I work with, sacrifice to, and pray to. That person you were responding to is uniformed, but you cross paths with many more throughout your life. I wear my sigil of Hecate proudly around my neck and carved into my flesh. I've been called a devil worshipper, had someone spit in my face, and been screamed more times than I can remember. I've been practicing for over 20 years and Wicca was my introduction to the craft. Learn about the other paths, the other Gods and Goddesses, and more about your own. Like I said you speak very well, and with more knowledge under you belt you'll be able to do even better. One thing I can tell you is that people like that only feed off your whipping back at them. Jist make sure when you do that you kbow exactky what your talkig about because they'll goon a google binge and come back saying you don't know what you're talking about. The last thing I'll say is we are lucky enough to live in a country where there is freeedon of religion. Love that and breathe it in, because our sister witches of old were not as lucky as we.

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      Crissy olivas 

      8 months ago

      This is so beautiful and refreshing....coming from a mother that was a preacher n missionary yet a spiritual excepting soul I have been hated and excepted....so refreshing to read this..... blessed be )0 (

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      Okeirany 

      8 months ago

      Oh my goddess, my family! I am actually Pagan. Anyway someone made a question on Yahoo about paganism being illegal, and I decided to give her a piece of my mind. Here it is: "No, it should not be. One, we don't 'eat unbaptized babies', paganism is not cannibalism. Secondly, Paganism does NOT support 'The Devil'. We don't even believe in their existence. And finally, you clearly know absolutely NOTHING about paganism. The pentacle represents the elements in correspondence to the body, our magic solely affects us, as it is internal, and the pagan rule of three states that we cannot harm others with our magick. You are clearly an idiotic person who has no understanding of what you are talking about, so shut. Your. MOUTH." For a 13 year old, I think it was pretty well stated. Anyway, I loved your article. I have actually had to deal with SO many annoying people, including a person who thought that because I didn't ll of a sudden generate a fireball out of thin air or something, that I wasn't a witch.

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      Aviva 

      9 months ago

      I am Christian and I think Wiccans, pagans, and witches are unique and cool, is that bad to my type?

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      Concerned 

      10 months ago

      Looking at this as an ex-Catholic, we need another Crusade.

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      hello 

      11 months ago

      ChaosShall prevail,

      How are you to connect with your family who thinks wiccians are evil?

      .

      You'er just going to have to be who you are, ignore the hurtful comments of others (which is just a good thing to do in life as you will always have nay-sayers to deal with.), and carry on as you will. You'er going to have to let your conduct speak for you. Be the bigger person.

      so, cultivate some good behavior, treat others well and always be respectful, regardless of how you are treated. (this all sounds like rehashed garble, doenst it? It's actually has a lot of truth in it. I was reading a book from ..1702? about that year, and the fellow gave the same advise to christians who were being picked on for being too zealous by their less-then-zealous christian neighbors. Just about everything is christian in 1702.)

      If you want to connect to them, you're going to have to be the one who is in the awkward position. You can try to understand a them without actually being one of them. you can even engage in some of there activities without being one of them. people do it all the time.

      You dont have to tell them that your Wiccian. In fact, you sound young, so you probably shouldn't, yet.

      I would highly recommend that you do not display that weakness of youth and attempt to force them to convert to your way of thinking. It never turns out well. It's very much like the fable of the Wind and the Sun. If you behave like the wind, and try to blow a mans jacket off, he will only hold it tighter. If you behave like the sun, and smile, the man will willingly take his jacket off. That's why you have to behave so well, so that they will come willingly, and in their own time.

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      ChaosShallPrevail 

      11 months ago

      I have a slightly off topic question, but would still ask anyways.

      How am I to be a Wiccan when I live in a household of Christians who believe Wiccans to be evil, and despises any sort of way I attempted to connect with them. I have tried honoring the my Step-mum's dead mother with her, I have attempted to understand their christian faith, but alas it was fruitless. What am I to do to try to connect with them?

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      13 months ago

      I'm so sorry you had that experience, Tim! Even sorrier that it is so common. ): It's a shame that more people can't see the value in choosing your own path and the personal nature of spirituality. You are definitely not alone! Thank you for taking the time to comment and share your thoughts.

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      Tim Begg 

      13 months ago

      Firstly, I would like to thank you for this article. I came from a Christian background, but left because I had more questions than they were prepared to answer. Since then I have followed my own path, closer to ancient Shamanism than Pagan.

      Like so many Christians, I considered anyone who did not follow my faith to be evil, and going to the place called 'Hell'. But then came the change, and I realized that our spiritual paths are intensely personal, and no-one can tell another that his/her path is wrong, or interfere with another person's spirituality.

      I have also come under severe criticism from Christians all my life, even when I was one of them myself - but that's for another time. Thank you again for this article! It is so nice to know that I am not alone in this struggle. Thank you.

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      Katherine 

      15 months ago

      Completely Alan, l've worked within the organisation for two years and never been asked to follow a faith. It is purely about me being supportive and caring to young people... my respect for all faiths will never wavier.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      15 months ago from Tasmania

      Katherine, that's an interesting perspective. I am just wondering if, as an agnostic, you would be allowed total freedom to remain agnostic, without having to be "educated" out of being agnostic.

      If the christians of that organisation are willing to be as open and respectful to yourself as you are to them, then there should be no problem.

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      Katherine 

      15 months ago

      Hi I recently posted a job advert for a Youth worker on a community page. The successful candidate will be working for a Christian organisation. I than received a comment, "Mmmm shame Christian". I was at first offended by the comment (I'm not personally a Christian I'm egnostic and open and interested in all faiths) so I responded this way, "Thank you for the comment. The Organisation is Christian. Many supportive organisations have been started or set up by a Church including the vast majority of schools, soup kitchens and homeless shelters. With the aim to education, respect, support and be kind to one another, these are the Christian values the ad refers to. The Organisation is fully inclusive and just wants to give every young person a good start in life.

      Please don't take this comment as in a way trying to embarrass or shame I just want anyone thinking about applying to know all the facts. Young People first and always will be! Best wishes

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      15 months ago

      Thank you for your openmindedness, Lucy. The world would be a better place if more people were that respectful!

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      Lucy 

      15 months ago

      I personally don't believe in peganism but at the same time I'm open to the possibility that it's . I'm not omnipotent, I don't know everything and honestly who am I to tell you that you're lying. For all I know it could be completely true and I'm just plain wrong. As a Christian I just feel like it's ridiculous to tell people what is and is not possible, that's really hypocritical and unfair.

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      Casey 

      16 months ago

      Thank you for this.

      I actually had a coworker tell me my pentagram necklace was a satanic symbol. I told her it can't be because I don't believe in Satan. Her response was "Well, I am a Christian and I do so it is."

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      16 months ago

      Hi Robin,

      Thanks for your question, and for being openminded toward the craft and those who practice it!

      As far as being a Catholic witch goes, I was actually always drawn to Catholicism from a young age, loved angels, and even when I ID'd exclusively as pagan, I felt more drawn to the Virgin Mary than I did to the traditional goddess archetype. Being raised in a spiritually and otherwise abusive Evangelical household, witchcraft and Catholicism were equally verboten (weird, I know!) I always said that I left Christianity because keeping an open mind and searching led me away from it, and it did. I found spiritual healing in the witchy and new age communities and am still very much a part of them. But that honest searching also led me back to the path I believe I would have found sooner if abusive Christianity hadn't been blocking the way. When I worked through the pain caused by Christians and separated my conception of God and the Church from that, and found the Old Catholic tradition which is very welcoming historically and currently to witches, I knew I had finally found my spiritual home. :)

      I will always be a witch, it's literally in my DNA. Witchcraft is a spiritual practice, and it opened my eyes to the esoteric truths that actually led me back to Catholicism, but I've always said you can be a witch and be an atheist, or nearly any other religion. And I still very much believe it! Going back and re-reading the Scriptures I was raised to memorize, I sometimes scratch my head and wonder how I didn't see those same principles permeating them! Hope that answers your question and explains the direction my path has taken a bit. :)

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      Robin 

      16 months ago

      Hi...... I'm on research right now FYI Christian background........ read your article and found it very interesting. I'm non condemning and actualily intrigued by spells/Magick/ witchcraft however would not dabble or convert. Josephine i would like to know what made you convert over to Catholic.

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      16 months ago

      Hi Nichole,

      Thanks for a kind and thoughtful response! Glad you enjoyed the article. :) And I agree, it's definitely a more wide-reaching problem. It's hard to believe it's been 2 years! In that time I've become Catholic but still consider myself a practicing witch and find I'm still fielding these 10 questions/comments mentioned in the article. If anything probably moreso than before! lol

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      Nichole 

      16 months ago

      Hi Josephine,

      I enjoyed reading your article. The way you wrote made it fun to read and the content was informative. I find what you say so true too, people are pushy! People try to control other peoples life journeys and most of them come from some Christian sect, it is the major religion so I'm not surprised that there are so many Christian responses these days... And, it's never bothered me there are so many people with terrible communication... Being that bad communication is a problem bigger than all the Christian populous (haha). But, there comes a time when peace fills your life and none of this will ever bother you anymore. It's been two years since you've posted this article though? If you do read this, thanks for the read.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 

      18 months ago from London England

      Merrie we meet.

      May day coming at the start of a new week.

      Who will be our 'May Queene' this year?

      More to follow!

      Bless.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 

      18 months ago from London England

      Merrie we meet.

      As a new holiday draws near, it is 'tyme'

      to leave the dystopia of this troubled and

      beligerant society for the calm and peace

      of the ethereal realm.

      Many blessings to all kindred spirits.

      the Limpet.

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      18 months ago

      Such as? LOL!

    • profile image

      i know 

      18 months ago

      You fabricated something about yourself in this article. You should rethink that and apologize to readers.

    • profile image

      Nelis van Wieren 

      18 months ago

      Saw this on someone's fb wall. Very interesting. Not my thing though, but neither is christiany or satanism

    • profile image

      Shawn 

      18 months ago

      Omg this article gets me I actually have a problem with my parents that keep saying witches and aliens took me. She said witches fly on brooms I said witches don't fly on brooms every one forces me to stop practicing witchcraft and stop believing in magic! It's annoying plus that gave me wrong information on what's magic. BTW a lot of people say that I worship Satan. Even my friend made fun of me cause I'm a witch! That I still kept practicing and follow my own path.

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      18 months ago

      Hello again, Limpet! Hope you're doing well. :)

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 

      19 months ago from London England

      Merrie we meet.

      Limpet here once more after a too brief sojurn

      in realm of the 'fae'. I'd forgotten about the hub

      activity in this genre but back on track now

      Many blessings to all kindred spirits.

    • profile image

      Brianna 

      19 months ago

      Love this so much.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      19 months ago from Tasmania

      Michael, thank you for your courteous reply. I did not wish to imply that you were "on the attack," that might be the impression you got, but no. I was simply addressing your approach from your christian point of view. And that's all it is, isn't it? A christian point of view.

      My point is that your christian religion, all your beliefs, all your traditions, are no more nor less valid than any other belief presented here within a hub addressing pagan and wiccan beliefs. (By the way, I hold neither. Just interested in their perspectives, that's all, and respecting at the same time.)

      However, your responses so far have been in the best christian tradition: you present yourself as kindly, friendly, approachable. You quickly defer to the bible as your guide and only reference. And, please be honest here --- isn't your sole reason for being here the object of evangelism? In other words, your presumption, along with the presumptions of every other stalwart christian, that your journey is applicable to everyone else in the world.

      You have taken the roads on your journey which have led to your understandings now. All those "-isms" which you have explored, the yoga, meditation, etc., have brought you to this point in your life, on your journey. Fair enough. No problem with that. Total respect.

      But let others follow their own journey too. Don't presume that you need to, or even have the right to, interfere in the journeys of others. You are not free to judge, even with that bible in your hand, that all other belief systems are subservient to your christian one. Because they are all based upon beliefs, with no actual proofs. So, each to their (our, my) own journey.

      You are in a hub which was intended to address the criticisms leveled at christians. The least you can do is read through those again and again, assessing and reassessing each one and compare them to your own attitude to any person who of their own volition chooses, at this point in time, to follow a journey which is not conducive to the way you see it....at this time.

      Don't be surprised if your attempts at evangelism here fall on stony, non-receptive ground. I reject it all, thank you, so please don't even try, don't even presume you are free to pray for me. That I would see as an intrusive insult.

      Continue your own journey, leave others to theirs.

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      Michael 

      19 months ago

      I want to clarify that if I in some way I appeared to be on the attack or seemed as if I'm judging or holier-than-though; well then I regret my wording. That is not my intent. There are a handful of things I know for certain and one is that I am not very wise, strong, intelligent(although the majority of my life can be defined as me trying to be all of those things) and so forth and I am definitely not better than anyone else. Josephine If I seemed to be attacking you, your post and the material in presented I apologize, that was not my intent.

      So first I have to say that in me expanding on anything, I go from the bible. I have tried so hard to find myself smart and knowledgeable, studying everything from psychology, to quantum physics to all the isms(and in fact practicing many of them and getting into transcendental meditation, various hindu yogas, demonology, seals of solomon, etc.) and everything between. In all of this I learned how human I am and that the only thing I can trust is the one unchanging divine thing in this material world and that's the bible - I certainly can't trust myself! (or other people).

      So I want to clarify that my confidence will always come from the bible and what it says, not from me or anything else. Not trying to incite anything just laying myself out and letting you know where I stand :)

      So original sin in essence was doubting God. That doubt led to an action. But basically the doubt was an act of question that which really is not questionable; not questionable in that you should not question, not that you can't. The reason being that the God of the bible is perfect, eternal, unchangeable and the source of all good things. To question that is begin to disagree and step out of the bounds of that which is in line with God; and God being spirit is basically an eternal existence consisting of certain character qualities. Those qualities, when one steps out of step with those qualities, is stepping out of line with all that is perfect, unchanging, eternal, joyful(and we all have been lied to a lot about joy and that vs. happiness - I KNOW I HAVE!), beautiful, eternal.... all that is holy basically; holy being set apart and unlike anything else.

      Now along with this big bag of wonderful traits come perfect justice, long-suffering and desire to do good. Putting those together we get excommunication from the garden as apposed to an immediate response of God punishing the offense made against His holiness. See if there is a God, and He is perfectly holy, eternal and pre-existent to all other things, and those things are made by Him, we don't have a leg to stand on if we've committed violence to His holiness lol. The holiness, being first, eternal, unchangeable and not subject to any other thing must be maintained and defended; that is part of a Holy God being a Holy God.

      So instead of responding with immediate justice, God (who had already planned His response to what He already knew man would do in their free choice) removed man from His presence. The rest of time is centered around God's plan to respond to God's justice through God's love for God's own sake; His own sake because He made us for love and fellowship with Him, and being that this is God's will it cannot be thwarted. If God has made people to ultimately share in His fellowship and enjoy Him for eternity it will come to fruition.

      It can be looked at as punishment, but it's more about God maintaining His holiness and being true to who He is... and that's because He can't change... and He can't change because He's perfect; to change is to say that at one point before or after change there was perfection and at the other side of the change the state that declared perfection changed; and perfection cannot cease to be perfection as that is one of the qualifying characteristic of perfection.

      Now at the same time God LOVED US. So God took on God's declaration of justice in our place at the cross. And it had to be God, because the offense, among other things, is eternal and God being eternal answers to that quality and degree of offense. Even if any human was perfect and took God's justice, God's wrath would not have been completely exhausted or satisfied.

      But it also quantifies His love by showing Who He chose to be the substitute... HIMSELF (while also being His Son.) Maybe we can talk about trinity later? :]

      These are the mechanics behind the current court system, although we has humans can corrupt the process.

      This was really short but I hope it cleared some stuff up.

      Again I am sorry if I upset anyone or came across snarky. That was not my intent. I certainly appreciate responses and am eager to read what anyone has to say without immediately judging it.

      One more comment in regards to the beliefs thing... I spent the first 30 years of my life exhausting various beliefs and ended up in a very dark place. I can say for me I found the one that set me free... and I don't mean to boast, that's not my intent. But I remember being lost and depressed and hurt and confused and prideful and tot ashamed to admit to who I was until after all the studying and all the religious practices and mantras and symbols and meditation and blahblahblah I was finally able to stop. I was finally able to rest. Someone else had already done what had to be done for me. He did it for me when I did not even ask. Such peace.

      Anyways, thanks for your thought provoking response Alan - I really do appreciate you replying. You know... I really don't like small talk lol and I love every opportunity to have deep, thought-provoking conversations :]

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      19 months ago from Tasmania

      Michael, can you expand on your concepts of original sin, sacrificial crucifixion, guilt, a punishing god and all the hyperbole that surrounds your christian religion?

      Josephine was expecting the sort of one-sided christian rhetoric which you have written about here in your post. You are entitled to write whatever you feel is close to your heart and understanding. I respect that.

      However, is it respect on your part to insist that your religious understandings are paramount and over-ride the beliefs of anyone else?

      Any person who feels it in his/her self to hold pagan or wiccan beliefs is just as free to do so as you are to hold your christian beliefs.

      Any, and I repeat "any" belief is only and just that. Any belief suits the needs of the person who is believing. If we can just respect that of our fellow humans, then we will help to make a better world in which to live in harmony.

      Even harmony itself requires the input of different frequencies, different notes. You, I, all the people contributing here, are all member frequencies of the world wide web of harmony.

      But it helps if we at least sing in tune.

    • profile image

      Michael 

      19 months ago

      I don't expect anyone to swallow it :) I am very familiar with the other 'valid or more so's. Would not mind going in to that if desirable. I have done anything but disregard other options... i can go into my history if you'd like. If you don't mind catering to my curiosity, could you expand on your idea of valid?

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      19 months ago from Tasmania

      Michael and "the2ndbirth," your absolutism, your presumption that everyone else needs to swallow that bait about original sin, your disregard for any other knowledge besides your interpretation of an ancient language --- this is why I have so much more time for people who are wiccan or pagan. It is not necessary for me to "believe" what they believe, only respect them and hear their statements about what they believe. They show simple, humble acceptance.

      Your christian rant is just that. Believe it as you wish, but it is only one impression of life. There are others, equally valid if not more so.

    • profile image

      Michael Hall 

      19 months ago

      One of the key things is a person's concept of absolute truth; that persons understanding in regards to Holiness/absolute perfection(and all that comes with it, such as perfect love, perfect justice, etc.) and what is the outcome if and when this absolute perfection and Holiness meet something that is any other than that(absolute perfection and Holiness.)

      Another thing to consider this is infinite chasm that stands between the two in regards to the ability to understand or even partially grasp such concepts. Basically that which is absolutely perfect and Holy has to reach out to that which is not. That which is not has no ability in and of itself to do anything to it's own benefit(although it may think otherwise, and it's very nature can come to a countless number of conclusions that are anything other than the absolute perfect conclusion.)

      We as humans could, in theory, show a dog the way to it living a completely rewarding and much fuller life, being that we have a perspective, understanding and access to resource that the dog does not. Unfortunately, the dog in it's own power has no ability to respond or understand what we offer. Also, in the case of the human and the dog, the human has no power to do what I hypothetically mention.

      Now this absolutely perfect and Holy entity does have that power. But man, like the dog, has no ability in of itself to recognize the Perfect and Holy entity as even existing as it is, let alone does man have the ability to realize it's need. This is something that God must grant, by repentance, through the truth.

      The truth is we have offended a Holy, perfect, innocent and eternal God who's original intent was to create us for blessed fellowship and existence in eternal perfection and limitless joy. In our sin, we have separated ourselves.

      Now the next issue is the fact that God being perfect and in complete fullness in all ways, cannot ignore any offense - much like NO ONE would ignore the assault and murder of an infant. The crime is heinous, because of the offense, but also because of who is offended.

      We do not realize the severity of offenses committed toward a holy and perfect and eternal God. And we in of ourselves can do nothing about it. God has provided the solution. Just as we cannot create ourselves or even do anything that is really that great (we die without a few days of water! REALLY!?), we cannot save ourselves.

      But God has made a way, through faith, for anyone to reach out and grab God's offer of salvation. Faith, for many reasons, one of which being it takes our eyes off of ourselves, it counters pride, and it turns us away from self-sufficiency and self-sufficiency is utterly dead at it's conclusion.

      Jesus did what we couldn't; while we were yet sinners He came and died, satisfying the wrath of a Holy God, who cannot in His perfection, ignore anything, while also living a perfect life, and in doing so was able to recon that to our account that we could be reconciled to God and being the restoration process of what was our original intent - fellowship with a loving God who desires us more than we could possibly imagine.

      I would caution not to expect or qualify your salvation or walk ON EXPERIENCE. EXPERIENCE NEGATES FAITH. That is not to say that experience cannot follow and validate that which one already has faith in. But experience-seeking is a very dangerous thing if one is to seek humility, run from pride and walk by faith. The fact is we all are born into iniquity, shaped in sin, and are caged within these fallen bodies of countless shortcomings; these suits of corruption.

      You come to God and receive his helping hand through Christ and His Spirit by faith, and you continue to walk by faith. The fallen body we are born into profits nothing - at least not on the grand scale. We may do minor things here and there but in the ultimate scheme of time, as all things are meeting their ultimate destiny of dust and rust, their is nothing we can do of any lasting circumstance outside of God. When all is burned away, all that will remain is that which can measure to God's perfect and holy standard; that being the new heaven and new earth, and our new incorruptible bodies that will surround our current spirits that can only be livened by God's Holy Spirit.

      And a note on God's Spirit; that is the only source of true life as it is the source of all origination. God is the source of all things and if any thing is said to have any thing that can be called good, it is because it borrowed or received that good from the original source. That original source, being God, is the definition of good. We as humans do a pretty horrible job of deciding and qualifying what is actually truly good.

      Woah sorry for the rant. Could not help myself! Look forward to any constructive responses :)

    • profile image

      the2ndbirth 

      20 months ago

      If you guys want to find God and experience Him, you have to follow the directions. 1st..make sure you hold no UNforgivenss towards anyone. Forgive anyone who has every trespassed against you. 2nd Change your mind about sin (repent) toward God, while believeing that his Son Jesus died and rose again as payment for sin. You must not only believe that He died, but KNOW that He is alive NOW. 3rd. You WILL recieve the Holy Spirit and be able to do certain miracles just by speaking them. That right there, is an awesome God. Saving us by repentance and faith in his Son alone, and giving us some really cool gifts once we have received the Holy Spirit. Best high I ever had.

      If a Christian judges you harshly, more than likely, he is not yet born again. When someone become born again, it is a supernatural event that will rock their world.

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      Eternal Moon 

      20 months ago

      As a witch myself i actively keep everybody mouth shut. Since 12 people knows that Im a witch and 3 wanting me to teach them, Im confused. I need help!!!

    • profile image

      Wicca Chick 

      21 months ago

      I have kept my broom in the closet, but I want to know how to at least tell my severely Christian dad that I'm Wiccan, because I don't like hiding stuff from him, for fear of breaking his trust. Two of my friends have already "figured it out" that I'm a witch, but I keep telling them they're wrong. I'm so confused as to what to do!

    • KJBFisher profile image

      KJBFisher 

      22 months ago

      My personal favorite could be #11:

      "You should just pray to god to help you with your problems."

      Pray to their God they mean! A God I do not believe in. Such mind numbing, clueless, ignorance is just down right insulting and disrespectful! I get it from friends, and relatives who ought to know better because I quit hiding that I am Wiccan a long time ago. To me it is like a Muslim saying to a Christian, "Convert to Islam and praise Allah or die." They just cannot grasp the concept that not everyone believes the same way they do. It just serves to make me feel more alienated and alone than I already do. Of course their answer to that would be to, "come back to God and good Christian ways. Go to church." And do what? Live a lie? That would be a sin. I was raised Baptist so I know what a sin is.

    • profile image

      Natalucci 

      23 months ago

      Can I ask, is there any thing I can do to conceive a girl ??? I've been trying to eat the certain foods & times of the month and all that.............anything else someone can tell me that worked for them ???

    • profile image

      Limpet 

      2 years ago

      Don't forget that Christians were also martyred for their beliefs from the 11th century through to the 15th century. Look up the Waldensians, Hugeneots and Lollards. Even Quakers were given a hard time by overzealous magistrates right up until I688.

    • profile image

      StacyF 

      2 years ago

      I cannot thank you enough for putting this out there. I am a descendant of the salem witches and you should see the looks on people's faces when I tell them that. I grew up christian myself too and although I didn't attend a christian college I studied scripture at length and compared it in all languages it was ever in.

      I'm from an ancient celtic bloodline so witchcraft is in my genes. No sense trying to ignore it, I embrace it. My ancestors were amazing healers and were put to death on just an accusation of being evil. Sadly there are still many today who would do the same to me if given the chance. The lack of knowledge and ignorance religions plague humanity with get innocent people killed. This madness has to end. I am sick of hearing how evil I am and getting offers for free exorcisms.

      I do not know why but you are right Christians do this the most. I never get backlash from any other group but Christians. When I was a christian all my life. I saw how quickly some will turn on you. The hypocrisy of Christians in America is astounding. If they actually practiced what they preach they would advocate for world peace. Stop paying their taxes that fund genocidal wars. They would rather spend their time arguing about who is the anti-christ and when the rapture is coming. Sad world this is. Religion is POISON

    • profile image

      Lee Phillips 

      2 years ago

      I'm Christian, but I've taught myself to respect all religions because when it comes down to it, we're all human and that's what matters. My religion used to brainwash me to believe that "non-Christians" are going to hell and for that reason I was terrified to talk to anyone that isn't Christian because I couldn't bare the thought of anyone going to hell. Then I made a friend who was a Hindu, and that really opened my eyes to how amazing people can be regardless of religion and I still talk to her to this day. Because of her and my own maturation, I've learned to respect every religion, and most religions fascinate me to the point that I can read and learn things about them for hours. I'm now a very open minded Christian and I believe that everyone (except the worst of people) goes to heaven. A person'/ religion doesn't matter, what matters is their personality (whether they're nice and open minded or not).

    • profile image

      Alan gibson 

      2 years ago

      Someone want answers on religion if I told you the truth no one would believe me anyway. I do have to answer so at last we could bring back our god of love and why was he banished from us all, god of love - loved his wife and never wanted any other except the love of his wife one day she became ill god of love started to panic and asked the other gods to form a miracle to save his wife but the other gods said but why do you want to save you wife there are many who can satisfy your lust why is she so different and special to you. god of love said a man should marry once to carry the name forward in life than a mixed relationship. the other gods replied as long as man enjoys his women he is doing no harm. god of love said I am the god of love and I want my people to love their first love than sharing others and women spawning children with different fathers will break the law of religion, the other gods replied again then if it happens then let it be and to show you god of love we will not help your wife and you must learn our ways of satisfaction of what we choose to satisfy our lust. God of love wife died and he was devastated losing the woman he loved so dearly he got very angry with the other gods and for that they banished the god of love and said no one will ever pray to you ever again and you will live on to the end of time with a different Name we will call you and your prayers will never be answered by your people ever again we cast you a fallen Angel, the missing link and why he is never around to save us, we all in life pray to the wrong God of our world and why there is so much hate and ignorance in our world the Rapes the Killings the Thieves and the Wars thrive in our world today with greed too and without god of love. our world is dying very quickly because of the gods who thought they had the answers to everything, the missed pages are now back, but is there any hope or chance of saving our god of love. I can't answer that only to the people of our World who can do that, and who is the person that no one has ever praised to the lord forgiveness, this was the true bible and the one we see now was phyxius definition by corruption of religion,

    • profile image

      Alan gibson 

      2 years ago

      Pagan witches and all others are Spiritual like myself. and yes people never understood the gifts we had put them to death by burning them to the stake, they are now called by spiritual reincarnation as the shadow people and they are still angry and for those who see them comes from their ancestries who put them to death and the curse was placed by them at the stake.

    • profile image

      Limpet 

      2 years ago

      Merrie we meet.

      As the is now a lull in newer articles on the hub pages i've been looking at previous postings of articles pertaining to folklore and also the metaphysical. I'm more at home in the paranormal/supernatural than the humdrum of normality.

      many blessings to all kindred spirits.

      Limpet

    • WiccanSage profile image

      Mackenzie Sage Wright 

      2 years ago

      Ha, I came across this again and it made me laugh because I just recently came across someone who said a couple of things on your list to me. So true!

    • profile image

      Nina 

      2 years ago

      Wicca is the most peaceful religion it's very similar to Buddhism and for ppl to say otherwise then they absolutely know nothing about it. It's a beautiful religion and unlike Christian faith we don't try to brain wash people. People are welcome to their own opinions but plz don't smear the name of us good wiches. I'm a very proud Wiccan and I do not push what I believe in on anyone that includes my lil one which she too wants to follow in the Wiccan faith. So I'm very proud of being a witch and my lil one as well. Blessed be.

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      2 years ago

      @KnowNotAll, well said! Arguing one set of beliefs based on the assumption that everyone shares them really isn't very effective. And I'm glad more people are becoming aware of the differences between witchcraft in general and Wicca. You would be surprised how many people who consider themselves witches don't know it!

    • profile image

      KnowitNotAll 

      2 years ago

      @Menelius Old Pagans from my home area believed that the god of shapeshifting (Yuriya) was meschivious but he was not the devil. That is because Pagans and Christians do not share the same beliefs. So your argument is invalid.

    • profile image

      KnowitNotAll 

      2 years ago

      Don't mean to frighten anyone but I grew up surrounded by witches and most of them were Christian. Yep, the ones that went to church and believed in God and Jesus. Only a small number were atheist. Wicca is something I first heard of about 7 or 8 years ago. Witchcraft has nothing to do with worshiping anything, no devil and no god(s). Any worshiping would have to do with religion. In case of Wicca they do worship gods but worshiping the devil is not part of their religion. Wicca and Witches I knew are very different though. Wicca has a lot going on with altars and all the other stuff, very much like religions. They are also super harmless since they don't believe in hurting people. Witches in general can choose when they want to be bad and not just choose one side, bad or good. I know a lot about Witchcraft I've observed but there is little that I know about Wicca. Interesting people, though.

    • profile image

      Limpet 

      2 years ago

      My actual involvement with real life 'wyches' in the past has been both manevolent and also benevolent. To illustrate my point here firstly, i have never been appealing to the opposite gender to the point of experiencing a very lonely 'tyme' when it should for me have been the best years of my life. When i contacted a Wiccan high priestess informally for advice she informed me that in order to progress i had to perform unpaid work for her until such tyme as i was ready to be ready to advance in 'the craft'. When i went for one of my frequent readings with a reliable clairvoyant i was told that there was a particular very powerful group who were only using me and in fact hated the sight of me. But there was one very adept lady who did confide in me telling me that i had suffered too much and unfortunately for me would never achieve the enlightenment i was expecting. So now i am trying to develope my own sixth sense and try to forget the bad 'olde' days.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      2 years ago from Tasmania

      @ Menelius: you seem to be confused by definition, like many people who claim to be christians here. How can you be confused into thinking your "Christian beliefs" are not religion?

      Please, see for your self, this first definition I can across: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion

      It tells us precisely the meaning of religion. But you are correct in telling your fellow christians to back off from judgment of those who believe differently.

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      2 years ago

      I appreciate your input, Manelius, and you're certainly entitled to believe whatever you like, but to say that I'm partly correct is based purely on your interpretation as a Christian (which I was for many, many years) just as my interpretation of your God is based on my own beliefs. Lucifer is a deceiver to you, but to many of us he's the one who brought sentience to humanity while the Biblical god is the one who punished mankind for a problem he created. It's all a matter of perspective.

    • profile image

      Menelius 

      2 years ago

      Hello

      As one who just started to delve into christian belief (NOT religion), I can say you are partly correct. You may not necessarily be willing to pray to the devil and his minions. Problem is, the devil is according to the Bible the greatest deceiver in the universe. Shapeshifting into something which resembles some of your gods is a feat he can do with greatest ease. And its not just the Bible: Theres a ghosthunting duo on youtube (The only ones I trust) who have encountered numberous legit paranormal activities. Now they didnt grow horns or loose their sanity in the end, but there were some minor possessions going on, and quite a lot of poltergeist activities too. Could be these were spirits who wanted to be left alone, could also be demons too.. Point is, we dont know, and man is always afraid of the unknown. But the bible tells us exactly how to protect ourselves from it, and preaches us to stay way from it. So thats exactly what we christians will do. Remember Lucifer is in our books the greatest deceiver, and he gains his strength through people who deny his existence.

      But now to the fellow christians who shout and scream against heathens and judge:

      You are nothing but hypocrites. Read Matthew 6:5, or better, read through the whole Matthew 6, if you want to know what I mean. I dont know how God may judge you, but I really think you are going the wrong way by pointing your fingers at others. Leave them be. They are non of your busyness. And if you still want to try and convert them... well, the way you are doing it now is certainly not productive.

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      2 years ago

      RaeAnn, wow, what a bizarre idea! Some of the stereotypes people perpetuate are just from a place of incomprehensible ignorance. I can't comprehend it, either.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      2 years ago from Tasmania

      GraueHexe, thank you for that impassioned account of your early life.

      My thoughts are that those "Christians," feeling they are so blessed by forgiveness, the Love of Christ, being right with their God, etc..... they would regard their "beliefs" as not in any way superstitious.

      Their superstition has a direct, adverse affect on the lives of others whom they regard as "not saved," and therefore inferior to their Christian standing.

      In my opinion they are thus blind, ignorant, self-deceiving, displaying anything but a fearless outlook on life.

      How much of this religiosity, cloaked with a false name of "faith," is prevalent throughout the United States?

      I don't accept the basis of any of those superstitions, even yours, but your Wiccan beliefs seem much more loving and accepting that the Christian ones, in my view, so I respect what you have written.

    • profile image

      GraueHexe 

      2 years ago

      I absolutely loved this article! I grew up in a Christian household, but I've known I was a witch since I was 4 years old. We had blackberries and raspberries in our backyard and I brought my basket out there to pick some and when I reach out my hand a woman glowing in all white with raven hair told me that I have to ask the plant if I can take the berries, but I wouldn't hear the answer I would feel it. So I did and I felt this warm energy rush over me and I knew it was okay to take some berries. Then she told me to thank the plant and that I should give something back to the plant, and told me to run inside and get an egg and come back and then she kissed my forhead. When I came out she was gone but I knew I had to do somehow (now I know she had imparted wisdom into me). I cracked open the egg and scooped out the yoke, then poured the white of the egg under the bush. I continued to learn when I could and when I was 12 I had about 6 books, some herbs, and some spell boxes. My mother, a devout Christian, found them, flew my aunt up from FL to NJ where we lived and they both confronted me. They made me smash the boxes and burn everything in the fireplace as they placed their hands on me. Then to make sure I wasn't possessed by the devil they made repeat the Lords prayer over and over and over again. Sunday happened to be the next day and they paraded me in front of the entire congregation. I was surrounded by I dont even know how many people laying hands on me and praying, some people refused to get that close to me. It was a small town even after that if one of those people saw me around town they would turn and walk the other way, stop and make me stand there while they LOUDLY prayed over me, or they looked terrrified and just kept coming while they vowed their heads and prayed silently with their lips moving. My mother had institutionalized at a religious facility for 30 days because she caught me with another book again about 3 weeks later. I have nothing against the Christian faith, but most of them are quite hypocritical when it comes to throwing stones at glass houses of what they consider sinful. Even now I wear my jewelry proudly and 50% of the time i go to the grocery store some tells me, I'm going to hell, I'm lucifer's mistress, I'm just another demon in the dark one's legion, and so many more. I'm just tired of it. I'm a really nice person and I dont bind, banish, or hex anyone unless they truly deserve it, and to this day I've only had to bind one person and thats it. People are scared of what they dont understand. The Bible has them completely closed minded to our kind. Whatever happened to love thy neighbor as you would love thyself?

    • profile image

      RaeAnn 

      2 years ago

      i simply don't understand. i found a sigh claiming pagans/wiccans will crap in your church or holy grounds. It was a sight run by Baptist! and i have a christian familywho are generally kind no matter how judgmental they are. So if a person is supposed to love his neighbors as they love themselves...why are they so....hateful? I hate stereotypes....it's depressing...i simply...can't comprehend their hatred .

    • profile image

      GADFLY 

      2 years ago

      Some moths ago an issue arose where student of a U.K. campus voted to put a ban on abusive free speech. The Establishment media are still carping on about this subject.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      2 years ago from Tasmania

      The big question is: If those persons with hate claim to be christian, and think they have "God" on their side, what a weak and inconsequential "God" that must be!

      I mean, what are they afraid of? If their faith/belief is no stronger than that, then why not go and have some real, friendly, exciting, revealing, enlightening communion with people who only have love in their hearts?

    • Nightcat profile image

      Nightcat 

      2 years ago

      I loved this article! I started over on Squidoo, but the moment I switched over to HP I noticed a huge uptick in hate mail in my comments sections from Christians. I don't care what anyone believes, more power to them, but I don't appreciate having it forced on me, either. I'm never sure what they think hate will accomplish, either.

    • profile image

      christboy88 

      2 years ago

      "They have individual personalities, stories, and yes, sometimes flaws, but that complexity is why we are drawn to them."

      Sounds like a genius philosophy to me.

    • profile image

      Bla Blorgenstein 

      2 years ago

      I also get a lot of "You're a Pagan/Witch? How do you make a love spell?" LOL or the "Can you see the future?" It's hard to teach that Pagan is a non-specific umbrella term for any number of traditions and beliefs, and Witch is like a job title for a practitioner of magic/energy manipulation.

      I still can't get over the conversation I had last summer. I bumped in to my neighbour, and she happily decided to tell me about how she came to love Jesus (her sister had her read the Bible and told her to treat it like a storybook rather than analyze what she was reading). That was all well and good and everything. (I think people do better mentally when they have someone to please and something to look forward to.) but she started getting preachy about how other people were living their lives, while assuming she was talking to another Christian. I got uncomfortable with what she was saying, and I excused myself from the conversation. She got defensive and asked why I was leaving, while she pushed a little more, so I told her I read the Bible, and enjoyed going to Bible classes weekly after school, but I didn't agree with it anymore because my life experiences brought me down a different path. She apologized to me for my falling away from God, because in her eyes I had lost my way and was someone to be pitied. As if my own spiritual connection and belief system was without value or worthy of any respect or consideration and my life was that much worse for not being a Christian. I have a hard time being around that kind of arrogance and ignorance.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 

      2 years ago from London England

      If you take a wander around Olde London towne, you'd notice many buildings from the 18th and 19th centuries adorned with pagan sculptures and decorative symbology. This came about at a tyme when there were 300 churches in the city, some with stained glass windows depicting dragons, the 'green man' and a lady in armour with a sword. It was Oliver Cromwell in his role as the Lord Protector decreed that all vestiges of the pagan realm be destroyed and this included the 'holy thorn' bush at Glastonbury in Somerset. But sympathetic locals grafted a cutting back and it sprouted and budded twice a year in fact! Alas, in modern tymes it keeps getting vandalised by bigots however there are now several examples kept elsewhere.

    • profile image

      Nivasi 

      2 years ago

      It simply amazes me of the ignorance in today's society..

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      2 years ago

      I'm not 100% sure I know what you're asking so correct me if need be, but would I have published this blog if the Christians saying and doing these things behaved more like Christ? The answer is yes, because many if not all of these things in and of themselves are not Christ-like things to say.

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      2 years ago

      No need to apologize, and thanks for your comment. :) Christians and pagans have more in common than not, I think. I look forward to a point when we'll all be able to relate to each other as people, and see past the labels to the souls within. Whether it's Jesus or Thor, I like to think that belief in a higher power should motivate us to treat one another with more kindness than we often do.

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      2 years ago

      We do, but I think because paganism is an umbrella term encompassing so many different faiths with many different values (another reason it's silly when people discriminate against us, since individual sects often have far more in common with Christianity than with other pagan religions,) they tend to be more grassroots movements and less associated with a particular deity or belief system. For example, in a local village that is mostly made up of new age and pagan businesses, there are frequent charity drives and environmental campaigns like the ones you've described, but the focus is more on doing the things than promoting a pagan agenda, so to speak.

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      2 years ago

      I agree that love is greater than the things that divide us, including religion or lack thereof. It certainly wasn't my intention to say that all Christians behave this way (as you said, I'm married to one who doesn't, so I know this quite well. :) But, just like any minority group, the fact that the majority also experiences discrimination doesn't negate the fact that minority groups face it in a systemized way. I hope I made it clear that if you are not the type who does this, this article isn't about you.

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      2 years ago

      I am not inclined to be saved by the one supposedly creating the situation from which I need to be saved, no. Come judgment day, I might have my regrets, but choosing to believe in a loving God instead of a capricious disciplinarian won't be one of them. :)

    • modernalchemyst profile imageAUTHOR

      Joey 

      2 years ago

      Asking the devil for help? I could use help repairing my washing machine, is that the kind of errand he does? Just kidding. I am very familiar with that verse. I grew up Pentecostal and let me tell ya, never have I experienced more demonic activity and spiritual oppression than among that sect. And I very much believe in God, I just don't believe in man's spiritual divisions, AKA religion. Have a nice day!

    • profile image

      Anurag 

      3 years ago

      I have read your post, and being a christian myself (who virtually believes many of the the accusations you have listed - I'm admitting it, knowing this will be unpopular), I want to ask you - Would this blog have been published had you seen more of Christ in all those Christians? (Instead of the condemnation and judgment.)

      (This was on my mind for a while, to just write to you.)

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 

      3 years ago from Tasmania

      Great Hub. Sorry I missed it all while it was happening... but at least I missed the c..p put out by K&T.

    • profile image

      Ta-Iset 

      3 years ago

      I read the whole thread. I have something to say to Kiss and Tales or whatever the name is, and I welcome you to try and sway me from my path. I have watched documentaries, upon reading many books, forums, and so on. There is no evidence that Egypt had slaves, let alone Hebrew slaves. They paid for the labor they received from common folk. The bible is mistaken in this depiction of Ancient Egypt. I follow the path of Isis and Osiris, along with Horus. I love their love story, and as it is incestuous, I like to think of it another way. We are all brothers and sisters, so technically we are all marrying our brother or sister. I find this beautiful and not at all the way I'm sure you're going to take it.

      It's beautiful because to love one another as family, and to recognize that we are all family is what religion is based on. Love, love, love. I love my husband, he is a Christian, he doesn't go to church, he doesn't read the bible, but he was brought up on it. His mother is very religious as well. When she found out I was Pagan, she was upset. She had said many things that hurt me, like I was ruining my sons life by worshiping the devil, and casting spells... I had told her that I don't worship a devil. I worship Isis and Osiris, I told her to read about them. I didn't know that she would become even more angry lol she said the story was hideous because they are brother and sister.

      I also wanted to say that no one was attacking you KT, you started trying to convert people after the hub author had asked for whatever religion you are not to try and convert, because we are strong in our beliefs and it is just very annoying. You have been saying so many hateful things, and you can't even see that you have. You think that you're helping us find our way back to truth, when the truth is a lie. Your truth is a lie! You won't even try and research it. I'm not trying to offend if that's how it is coming off, I'm trying to educate.

      The bible has been proven to be stories made up from other religions. Some of the historical events like the flood is true, but most of the people who apparently lived no one can find any evidence of. I really would like for us all the coexist peacefully. I would like it if we could openly practice and worship the way people do in churches. I haven't been to a real pagan temple, they have them down in the states, but here in Canada I haven't come across any...

      One of my goals was to open up one, one day, I don't think I will be able to though.... I don't know how to run one, or finance one, or what I'd do when it is opened. I would like to find out how to go about it though and then maybe I can figure out how to open one... Currently I am still learning more about my path.

      I follow the Ancient Egyptian path, I'm trying to learn as much as I possibly can about them, and their culture, religion, and everything I can get my hands on. I find it fascinating and beautiful in all regards. I would like to hear more from LG, I find you very fascinating as well, and I love learning about other paths and religions.

      Until there is a reply, blessed be and love and light :)

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