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10 Most Annoying Things Christians Say to Pagans, Witches & Wiccans

Updated on August 29, 2016
modernalchemyst profile image

Jo is an eclectic witch with a degree in Psychology and an obsession with novena candles. She primarily practices hoodoo and angel magick.

Christianity and Paganism

Christianity and Paganism often Clash Beliefs
Christianity and Paganism often Clash Beliefs | Source

To those of you who read the title and are thinking, "Hey! Why are you picking on Christians?" the answer is rather simple (though "picking" on anyone certainly isn't my intention.) Since coming out of the "broom closet" (and coming out of the closet as a bisexual woman long before that), I've noticed that the most vociferous attackers of Paganism online are Christians. I don't have anything against the Christian faith, but the simple truth is, it's not people of the Jewish faith quoting off-topic passages of the Torah on our message boards, it's not atheists telling us to turn away from our "evil ways," and it's not Hindus who spam our websites en masse by proselytizing. The Christian call to evangelize combined with the rampant bigotry towards Paganism and witchcraft in general within the Christian Church has led to what often feels like a witch hunt online.

When I first began researching Paganism, I wanted to reach out to others in the online Pagan community to ask questions and gain from their experience, but I was intimidated by the slew of Bible passages and all-caps rants about the "evils" of "devil worship" that seemed to plague every Youtube comments section, message board, and Tumblog on Paganism. It's one thing to share your beliefs in a respectful and intellectual manner on a website that is dedicated to the discussion of inter-faith topics. It is entirely another to go into someone else's "territory," which is what a niche website is, and force your beliefs down people's throats.

One recent example of this is a specifically Pagan blog I was reading recently. A relatively new witch was asking for advice which she clearly solicited from other Pagans and witches. She was met with a barrage of Christians spamming the comments thread with lengthy and out of context Bible passages, e-shouting all myriad of ignorant and bigoted comments. She never asked for their opinion.

In light of what seems like an ever-increasing epidemic, and understanding that there are Christians who truly don't realize that their online behavior towards the Pagan community is both counterproductive and just plain rude, I want to put this list out there to illustrate some of the worst (and unfortunately common) things that many Christians say in an attempt to "convert' Pagans. These are personal pet peeves, and I don't pretend to speak for the whole Pagan community, however.

For Pagans

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1. You just hate Christians/Christianity.

I dislike some Christians, just as I dislike some Pagans, Deists, Atheists, etc.. It has nothing to do with the fact that they are Christians, though, but rather who they are as people. In fact, I grew up as a Christian. Literally my entire family is composed of Evangelical, Charismatic Christians who belong either to non-denominational or Assemblies of God churches. I went to a Christian college, so a good majority of my friends are Christians. In fact, I'm ENGAGED to a Christian. Yes, I'm a Pagan engaged to a Christian, but that's a Hub for another day.

Admittedly, there are some of us in the Pagan community who have unfair animosity towards Christians. It's not an excuse, but it doesn't exactly come out of a vacuum. Most of us deal with attacks on our spirituality, morality, and sometimes our very physical safety on a daily basis, especially in the areas of the world that are very predominantly Christian. While most Pagans try to judge people on an individual basis, you have to understand that the moment a Christian inquires about that "star" hanging around our neck, there is going to be a moment of nervous pause while wondering if they're going to try to "witness" to us by randomly quoting Scripture, suddenly look at us like we're possessed, or worse.

The Bible is Not Part of Paganism

Bringing a Bible to a Pagan debate is NOT effective!
Bringing a Bible to a Pagan debate is NOT effective! | Source

2. You just haven't read the Holy Bible! Let me share this verse with you... Well, actually, I have read the Bible, many times. The NIV, the KJV, the NLT, and the Message, to be precise. I've also studied the Bible in its original languages and cultural contexts. I've written papers on the Bible, debated with some of the foremost Christian scholars, and I even have a degree from a Christian university. I think I've given the Bible a fair shake and, unfortunately, I find that I know the Bible better than most of the Christians who quote it at me.

3. If you were open to God's Word, you'd turn away from Paganism/Witchcraft?

No. I was open. In fact, I was so desperate to be a "good Christian" in my earlier years that I went so far as to perform self-hypnosis in an attempt to make myself "feel it." Assuming that you know a Pagan's spiritual and life journey and that just because they didn't come to the same conclusion as you, that Christianity is "the truth," is about as prideful as it gets and it's certainly not going to build any bridges.

Is Paganism Devil Worship?

All Pagans work at 666 Devil Worship Street, according to some Christians.
All Pagans work at 666 Devil Worship Street, according to some Christians. | Source

4. But witchcraft is devil worship!

The irony with this common comment is that most of us do not even believe in the devil, at least not in the way that Christians think. Most sects of Satanism don't even worship an actual devil and the ones that do view him very differently than you do. Trust me when I say, worshiping the Christian construct of the devil is not a part of any typical Pagan belief system.

Update: Read more about Satanism and Luciferianism HERE.

5. Your gods are just the devil/demons/evil spirits in disguise!

I think this one comes from the fact that many gods/goddesses in various pantheons seem at times to be amoral or, at the very least, capable of actions that would generally be perceived as immoral. The thing is, Paganism has a much more nuanced view of morality than the Abrahamic faiths. It's not that we don't have morals in our personal lives, but divinity is not linked intrinsically to "good" or "evil" in most schools of paganism. There are some deities that air more on the side of one than the other, but Paganism regards balance between light and dark as a good thing, not a band thing.

By contrast, Christianity embraces only light, and many of us feel that such a belief system is limiting to both the human and divine experience. Our deities are complex. They have individual personalities, stories, and yes, sometimes flaws, but that complexity is why we are drawn to them. YOU may see them as demons and you may feel the need to make everything black or white, but in doing so, you negate one of the primary elements of pagan philosophy and prove that you really don't understand our faith at all. Don't be surprised when we don't respect your assessment of it.

6. "You Pagan Satanist Wiccan Witches..."

Yes, some of us are pagan Wiccan witches, but assuming that all pagans are this or that is an automatic giveaway that you haven't really researched what you're talking about. Some pagans are witches. Some pagans are Wiccans. Some Wiccans are Witches. Not all pagans are Wiccans or Witches, and not all Witches are Wiccan or pagan. It just doesn't work that way. Paganism is a philosophy and a spiritual path that encompasses many different religions, Wicca is a faith that is also pagan, and witchcraft is a practice. There are atheist and agnostic witches, Jewish, Hindu, and Buddhist witches, and even Christian witches. A witch is just someone who practices Witchcraft. That's all, really. Some of us identify as Mages, Sorcerors, Ceremonial Magicians and Alchemists, and each label comes with its own meaning.

Within paganism, there are a variety of pantheons which a pagan may ascribe to exclusively, or along with one or more other pantheons. Before you label someone, get to know them. Ask them questions if it's appropriate in the context of your relationship, and don't assume you know what they believe just because you watched a documentary on witchcraft.

Witchcraft and Paganism Are Not Phases

Unless you can see into the future, don't accuse someone's faith of being a phase!
Unless you can see into the future, don't accuse someone's faith of being a phase! | Source

7. Wicca/Witchcraft/Paganism is just a phase.

For some people it is. But those people are not truly Wiccans, pagans, or witches. True faith is not a phase, and it does not rely on a label. Sometimes people latch onto paganism because they believe it's trendy and, once they realize that true paganism requires in-depth soul searching, study, and spiritual devotion, they back out. Oftentimes they back out because they weren't expecting the amount of persecution that often comes with being open about one's pagan faith.

It's one thing to be persecuted for a faith that is an intrinsic part of you, but it's another thing to be persecuted for a fad that you only latched onto for social points in the first place! That doesn't mean that paganism is a fad any more than Christianity, and believe me, there are plenty of people who claim to be Christians because the vast majority of the population is, or simply to avoid being judged by Christians at work, school, or home.

8. I made a witch mad and now I'm afraid he/she is going to curse me! Help!

While I'm sure there are days all of us feel like putting a hex on that jerk who cut us off in traffic or took credit for our ideas at work, that's not how it works. We don't just go around cursing people left and right. In fact, Christians are much more likely to curse you. What, you say? Christians cursing people?? Yes, indeed. Remember the last time you prayed for God to "teach someone a lesson," or keep someone from doing something? Well, that's technically a curse. A curse is simply casting your intentions to some power outside of yourself in an effort to impede someone's free will. Christians do this all the time through prayer, and it takes nothing more than closing their eyes and sending a thought to their God.

The practice of cursing and hexing in witchcraft, however, is usually much more involved. Many (not all) of us use tools known as correspondences to work our crafts. Even a simple curse typically involves the use of one or more correspondences, and it must be done in a peaceful environment in which the witch is able to fully focus her intentions into the curse. Cursing is not something that is done on the fly. It takes a great amount of energy and, very often, the curse causes at least some negative repercussion to the witch, the least of which can be a drain of energy.

Another important aspect of cursing that most non-witches fail to understand is that many witches believe in something called the rule of 3. The rule of 3 states that whatever you put out into the universe comes back to you threefold. Some witches believe this to be a literal return of the curse multiplied by 3, while others feel that it's a more symbolic repercussion of negative actions taking place in the mind, body, and spirit. Not all witches believe in the rule of 3 by a long shot (myself included,) but many Wiccans do. The Wiccan rede also states, "An it harm none, do as ye will." For many witches, this is a prohibition against black magick, such as cursing, in all but the most extreme circumstances.

That's an awful lot to contend with just because someone cut you off in traffic, don't you think?

9. I don't believe in witchcraft. Witchcraft is just made up/imaginary/silly.

Strangely enough, I'll often hear 8 and 9 uttered within minutes of one another. Often those who put the least stock into witchcraft are the ones who fear its effects the most! You're certainly entitled to your opinion that witchcraft is not effective, but to claim that you don't believe it or that it's made up is a bit like saying that you don't think prayer exists. I may not think Christian prayer works, but I still acknowledge that Christians pray and thus, Christian prayer does in fact exist. Witchcraft is much the same. It works for us, just as your prayers work for you. No two Christians pray in exactly the same way (at least, I hope not!) and no two witches practice the Craft in exactly the same way. It's a personal experience. I, for one, believe without a doubt that magick is a real, natural, and powerful force in this world, even if we don't empirically understand all the laws by which it works and manifests.

Either way, just because you don't see the evidence that witchcraft is effective doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you. Much of witchcraft manifests internally, and helps us to meet our personal and spiritual goals. You wouldn't go up to someone and tell them that they're silly for praying or meditating, so refrain from making the claim that someone's Craft is ineffective just because YOU don't see the results that you EXPECT to see on the outside.

Witch Stereotypes

Stereotypes about witches run rampant!
Stereotypes about witches run rampant! | Source

10. You don't look/act/sound like a witch.

Just as there is no one type of Christian, there is no one type of witch. Some of us practice in traditional garb, while others practice the Craft in jeans and a t-shirt. Some of us have high-pitched, enthusiastic voices while others of us have deep, husky voices and speak in formal ways. Some of us are goth, some of us are preppy, some of us are rockabilly, retro, or vintage, and others of us just do well enough to leave the house in matching socks. There is no "right way" to look or act like a witch, but that being said, there is nothing wrong with attempting to dress or behave like a "traditional" witch, either. For many people, wearing the traditional garb of their ancestral heritage helps them to get in touch with the cultural aspect of their practice, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I myself lean towards more formality in practice as a Ceremonial Magickian, but some of my best practicing witch friends prefer to practice in jeans and a comfy sweatshirt.

The media perpetuates plenty of stereotypes about what a witch is supposed to look like. From the lovely ladies of Charmed and Buffy to the wart-laden crone in Snow White, everyone seems to have an idea of what a witch looks like. The simple truth is, a witch looks like your next door neighbor whose subtle pentagram necklace you probably haven't even taken notice of while chatting about your gardens. A witch looks like the guy at the checkout counter who strikes up a conversation with you about the price of groceries these days. A witch looks like that soccer mom you sit next to at your kid's game. Witches are everywhere, just like you. Get to know us for who we are, and you'll learn a lot more than any movie or TV show will ever tell you.

The Pagan Quiz for Christians


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    • modernalchemyst profile image
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      Josephine 5 weeks ago from New England

      I'm so sorry you had that experience, Tim! Even sorrier that it is so common. ): It's a shame that more people can't see the value in choosing your own path and the personal nature of spirituality. You are definitely not alone! Thank you for taking the time to comment and share your thoughts.

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      Tim Begg 5 weeks ago

      Firstly, I would like to thank you for this article. I came from a Christian background, but left because I had more questions than they were prepared to answer. Since then I have followed my own path, closer to ancient Shamanism than Pagan.

      Like so many Christians, I considered anyone who did not follow my faith to be evil, and going to the place called 'Hell'. But then came the change, and I realized that our spiritual paths are intensely personal, and no-one can tell another that his/her path is wrong, or interfere with another person's spirituality.

      I have also come under severe criticism from Christians all my life, even when I was one of them myself - but that's for another time. Thank you again for this article! It is so nice to know that I am not alone in this struggle. Thank you.

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      Katherine 2 months ago

      Completely Alan, l've worked within the organisation for two years and never been asked to follow a faith. It is purely about me being supportive and caring to young people... my respect for all faiths will never wavier.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 2 months ago from Tasmania

      Katherine, that's an interesting perspective. I am just wondering if, as an agnostic, you would be allowed total freedom to remain agnostic, without having to be "educated" out of being agnostic.

      If the christians of that organisation are willing to be as open and respectful to yourself as you are to them, then there should be no problem.

    • profile image

      Katherine 2 months ago

      Hi I recently posted a job advert for a Youth worker on a community page. The successful candidate will be working for a Christian organisation. I than received a comment, "Mmmm shame Christian". I was at first offended by the comment (I'm not personally a Christian I'm egnostic and open and interested in all faiths) so I responded this way, "Thank you for the comment. The Organisation is Christian. Many supportive organisations have been started or set up by a Church including the vast majority of schools, soup kitchens and homeless shelters. With the aim to education, respect, support and be kind to one another, these are the Christian values the ad refers to. The Organisation is fully inclusive and just wants to give every young person a good start in life.

      Please don't take this comment as in a way trying to embarrass or shame I just want anyone thinking about applying to know all the facts. Young People first and always will be! Best wishes

    • modernalchemyst profile image
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      Josephine 3 months ago from New England

      Thank you for your openmindedness, Lucy. The world would be a better place if more people were that respectful!

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      Lucy 3 months ago

      I personally don't believe in peganism but at the same time I'm open to the possibility that it's . I'm not omnipotent, I don't know everything and honestly who am I to tell you that you're lying. For all I know it could be completely true and I'm just plain wrong. As a Christian I just feel like it's ridiculous to tell people what is and is not possible, that's really hypocritical and unfair.

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      Casey 3 months ago

      Thank you for this.

      I actually had a coworker tell me my pentagram necklace was a satanic symbol. I told her it can't be because I don't believe in Satan. Her response was "Well, I am a Christian and I do so it is."

    • modernalchemyst profile image
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      Josephine 4 months ago from New England

      Hi Robin,

      Thanks for your question, and for being openminded toward the craft and those who practice it!

      As far as being a Catholic witch goes, I was actually always drawn to Catholicism from a young age, loved angels, and even when I ID'd exclusively as pagan, I felt more drawn to the Virgin Mary than I did to the traditional goddess archetype. Being raised in a spiritually and otherwise abusive Evangelical household, witchcraft and Catholicism were equally verboten (weird, I know!) I always said that I left Christianity because keeping an open mind and searching led me away from it, and it did. I found spiritual healing in the witchy and new age communities and am still very much a part of them. But that honest searching also led me back to the path I believe I would have found sooner if abusive Christianity hadn't been blocking the way. When I worked through the pain caused by Christians and separated my conception of God and the Church from that, and found the Old Catholic tradition which is very welcoming historically and currently to witches, I knew I had finally found my spiritual home. :)

      I will always be a witch, it's literally in my DNA. Witchcraft is a spiritual practice, and it opened my eyes to the esoteric truths that actually led me back to Catholicism, but I've always said you can be a witch and be an atheist, or nearly any other religion. And I still very much believe it! Going back and re-reading the Scriptures I was raised to memorize, I sometimes scratch my head and wonder how I didn't see those same principles permeating them! Hope that answers your question and explains the direction my path has taken a bit. :)

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      Robin 4 months ago

      Hi...... I'm on research right now FYI Christian background........ read your article and found it very interesting. I'm non condemning and actualily intrigued by spells/Magick/ witchcraft however would not dabble or convert. Josephine i would like to know what made you convert over to Catholic.

    • modernalchemyst profile image
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      Josephine 4 months ago from New England

      Hi Nichole,

      Thanks for a kind and thoughtful response! Glad you enjoyed the article. :) And I agree, it's definitely a more wide-reaching problem. It's hard to believe it's been 2 years! In that time I've become Catholic but still consider myself a practicing witch and find I'm still fielding these 10 questions/comments mentioned in the article. If anything probably moreso than before! lol

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      Nichole 4 months ago

      Hi Josephine,

      I enjoyed reading your article. The way you wrote made it fun to read and the content was informative. I find what you say so true too, people are pushy! People try to control other peoples life journeys and most of them come from some Christian sect, it is the major religion so I'm not surprised that there are so many Christian responses these days... And, it's never bothered me there are so many people with terrible communication... Being that bad communication is a problem bigger than all the Christian populous (haha). But, there comes a time when peace fills your life and none of this will ever bother you anymore. It's been two years since you've posted this article though? If you do read this, thanks for the read.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 5 months ago from London England

      Merrie we meet.

      May day coming at the start of a new week.

      Who will be our 'May Queene' this year?

      More to follow!

      Bless.

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 6 months ago from London England

      Merrie we meet.

      As a new holiday draws near, it is 'tyme'

      to leave the dystopia of this troubled and

      beligerant society for the calm and peace

      of the ethereal realm.

      Many blessings to all kindred spirits.

      the Limpet.

    • modernalchemyst profile image
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      Josephine 6 months ago from New England

      Such as? LOL!

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      i know 6 months ago

      You fabricated something about yourself in this article. You should rethink that and apologize to readers.

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      Nelis van Wieren 6 months ago

      Saw this on someone's fb wall. Very interesting. Not my thing though, but neither is christiany or satanism

    • profile image

      Shawn 6 months ago

      Omg this article gets me I actually have a problem with my parents that keep saying witches and aliens took me. She said witches fly on brooms I said witches don't fly on brooms every one forces me to stop practicing witchcraft and stop believing in magic! It's annoying plus that gave me wrong information on what's magic. BTW a lot of people say that I worship Satan. Even my friend made fun of me cause I'm a witch! That I still kept practicing and follow my own path.

    • modernalchemyst profile image
      Author

      Josephine 6 months ago from New England

      Hello again, Limpet! Hope you're doing well. :)

    • limpet profile image

      Ian Stuart Robertson 6 months ago from London England

      Merrie we meet.

      Limpet here once more after a too brief sojurn

      in realm of the 'fae'. I'd forgotten about the hub

      activity in this genre but back on track now

      Many blessings to all kindred spirits.

    • profile image

      Brianna 6 months ago

      Love this so much.

    • jonnycomelately profile image

      Alan 7 months ago from Tasmania

      Michael, thank you for your courteous reply. I did not wish to imply that you were "on the attack," that might be the impression you got, but no. I was simply addressing your approach from your christian point of view. And that's all it is, isn't it? A christian point of view.

      My point is that your christian religion, all your beliefs, all your traditions, are no more nor less valid than any other belief presented here within a hub addressing pagan and wiccan beliefs. (By the way, I hold neither. Just interested in their perspectives, that's all, and respecting at the same time.)

      However, your responses so far have been in the best christian tradition: you present yourself as kindly, friendly, approachable. You quickly defer to the bible as your guide and only reference. And, please be honest here --- isn't your sole reason for being here the object of evangelism? In other words, your presumption, along with the presumptions of every other stalwart christian, that your journey is applicable to everyone else in the world.

      You have taken the roads on your journey which have led to your understandings now. All those "-isms" which you have explored, the yoga, meditation, etc., have brought you to this point in your life, on your journey. Fair enough. No problem with that. Total respect.

      But let others follow their own journey too. Don't presume that you need to, or even have the right to, interfere in the journeys of others. You are not free to judge, even with that bible in your hand, that all other belief systems are subservient to your christian one. Because they are all based upon beliefs, with no actual proofs. So, each to their (our, my) own journey.

      You are in a hub which was intended to address the criticisms leveled at christians. The least you can do is read through those again and again, assessing and reassessing each one and compare them to your own attitude to any person who of their own volition chooses, at this point in time, to follow a journey which is not conducive to the way you see it....at this time.

      Don't be surprised if your attempts at evangelism here fall on stony, non-receptive ground. I reject it all, thank you, so please don't even try, don't even presume you are free to pray for me. That I would see as an intrusive insult.

      Continue your own journey, leave others to theirs.

    • profile image

      Michael 7 months ago

      I want to clarify that if I in some way I appeared to be on the attack or seemed as if I'm judging or holier-than-though; well then I regret my wording. That is not my intent. There are a handful of things I know for certain and one is that I am not very wise, strong, intelligent(although the majority of my life can be defined as me trying to be all of those things) and so forth and I am definitely not better than anyone else. Josephine If I seemed to be attacking you, your post and the material in presented I apologize, that was not my intent.

      So first I have to say that in me expanding on anything, I go from the bible. I have tried so hard to find myself smart and knowledgeable, studying everything from psychology, to quantum physics to all the isms(and in fact practicing many of them and getting into transcendental meditation, various hindu yogas, demonology, seals of solomon, etc.) and everything between. In all of this I learned how human I am and that the only thing I can trust is the one unchanging divine thing in this material world and that's the bible - I certainly can't trust myself! (or other people).

      So I want to clarify that my confidence will always come from the bible and what it says, not from me or anything else. Not trying to incite anything just laying myself out and letting you know where I stand :)

      So original sin in essence was doubting God. That doubt led to an action. But basically the doubt was an act of question that which really is not questionable; not questionable in that you should not question, not that you can't. The reason being that the God of the bible is perfect, eternal, unchangeable and the source of all good things. To question that is begin to disagree and step out of the bounds of that which is in line with God; and God being spirit is basically an eternal existence consisting of certain character qualities. Those qualities, when one steps out of step with those qualities, is stepping out of line with all that is perfect, unchanging, eternal, joyful(and we all have been lied to a lot about joy and that vs. happiness - I KNOW I HAVE!), beautiful, eternal.... all that is holy basically; holy being set apart and unlike anything else.

      Now along with this big bag of wonderful traits come perfect justice, long-suffering and desire to do good. Putting those together we get excommunication from the garden as apposed to an immediate response of God punishing the offense made against His holiness. See if there is a God, and He is perfectly holy, eternal and pre-existent to all other things, and those things are made by Him, we don't have a leg to stand on if we've committed violence to His holiness lol. The holiness, being first, eternal, unchangeable and not subject to any other thing must be maintained and defended; that is part of a Holy God being a Holy God.

      So instead of responding with immediate justice, God (who had already planned His response to what He already knew man would do in their free choice) removed man from His presence. The rest of time is centered around God's plan to respond to God's justice through God's love for God's own sake; His own sake because He made us for love and fellowship with Him, and being that this is God's will it cannot be thwarted. If God has made people to ultimately share in His fellowship and enjoy Him for eternity it will come to fruition.

      It can be looked at as punishment, but it's more about God maintaining His holiness and being true to who He is... and that's because He can't change... and He can't change because He's perfect; to change is to say that at one point before or after change there was perfection and at the other side of the change the state that declared perfection changed; and perfection cannot cease to be perfection as that is one of the qualifying characteristic of perfection.

      Now at the same time God LOVED US. So God took on God's declaration of justice in our place at the cross. And it had to be God, because the offense, among other things, is eternal and God being eternal answers to that quality and degree of offense. Even if any human was perfect and took God's justice, God's wrath would not have been completely exhausted or satisfied.

      But it also quantifies His love by showing Who He chose to be the substitute... HIMSELF (while also being His Son.) Maybe we can talk about trinity later? :]

      These are the mechanics behind the current court system, although we has humans can corrupt the process.

      This was really short but I hope it cleared some stuff up.

      Again I am sorry if I upset anyone or came across snarky. That was not my intent. I certainly appreciate responses and am eager to read what anyone has to say without immediately judging it.

      One more comment in regards to the beliefs thing... I spent the first 30 years of my life exhausting various beliefs and ended up in a very dark place. I can say for me I found the one that set me free... and I don't mean to boast, that's not my intent. But I remember being lost and depressed and hurt and confused and prideful and tot ashamed to admit to who I was until after all the studying and all the religious practices and mantras and symbols and meditation and blahblahblah I was finally able to stop. I was finally able to rest. Someone else had already done what had to be done for me. He did it for me when I did not even ask. Such peace.

      Anyways, thanks for your thought provoking response Alan - I really do appreciate you replying. You know... I really don't like small talk lol and I love every opportunity to have deep, thought-provoking conversations :]

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      Alan 7 months ago from Tasmania

      Michael, can you expand on your concepts of original sin, sacrificial crucifixion, guilt, a punishing god and all the hyperbole that surrounds your christian religion?

      Josephine was expecting the sort of one-sided christian rhetoric which you have written about here in your post. You are entitled to write whatever you feel is close to your heart and understanding. I respect that.

      However, is it respect on your part to insist that your religious understandings are paramount and over-ride the beliefs of anyone else?

      Any person who feels it in his/her self to hold pagan or wiccan beliefs is just as free to do so as you are to hold your christian beliefs.

      Any, and I repeat "any" belief is only and just that. Any belief suits the needs of the person who is believing. If we can just respect that of our fellow humans, then we will help to make a better world in which to live in harmony.

      Even harmony itself requires the input of different frequencies, different notes. You, I, all the people contributing here, are all member frequencies of the world wide web of harmony.

      But it helps if we at least sing in tune.

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      Michael 7 months ago

      I don't expect anyone to swallow it :) I am very familiar with the other 'valid or more so's. Would not mind going in to that if desirable. I have done anything but disregard other options... i can go into my history if you'd like. If you don't mind catering to my curiosity, could you expand on your idea of valid?

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      Alan 7 months ago from Tasmania

      Michael and "the2ndbirth," your absolutism, your presumption that everyone else needs to swallow that bait about original sin, your disregard for any other knowledge besides your interpretation of an ancient language --- this is why I have so much more time for people who are wiccan or pagan. It is not necessary for me to "believe" what they believe, only respect them and hear their statements about what they believe. They show simple, humble acceptance.

      Your christian rant is just that. Believe it as you wish, but it is only one impression of life. There are others, equally valid if not more so.

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      Michael Hall 7 months ago

      One of the key things is a person's concept of absolute truth; that persons understanding in regards to Holiness/absolute perfection(and all that comes with it, such as perfect love, perfect justice, etc.) and what is the outcome if and when this absolute perfection and Holiness meet something that is any other than that(absolute perfection and Holiness.)

      Another thing to consider this is infinite chasm that stands between the two in regards to the ability to understand or even partially grasp such concepts. Basically that which is absolutely perfect and Holy has to reach out to that which is not. That which is not has no ability in and of itself to do anything to it's own benefit(although it may think otherwise, and it's very nature can come to a countless number of conclusions that are anything other than the absolute perfect conclusion.)

      We as humans could, in theory, show a dog the way to it living a completely rewarding and much fuller life, being that we have a perspective, understanding and access to resource that the dog does not. Unfortunately, the dog in it's own power has no ability to respond or understand what we offer. Also, in the case of the human and the dog, the human has no power to do what I hypothetically mention.

      Now this absolutely perfect and Holy entity does have that power. But man, like the dog, has no ability in of itself to recognize the Perfect and Holy entity as even existing as it is, let alone does man have the ability to realize it's need. This is something that God must grant, by repentance, through the truth.

      The truth is we have offended a Holy, perfect, innocent and eternal God who's original intent was to create us for blessed fellowship and existence in eternal perfection and limitless joy. In our sin, we have separated ourselves.

      Now the next issue is the fact that God being perfect and in complete fullness in all ways, cannot ignore any offense - much like NO ONE would ignore the assault and murder of an infant. The crime is heinous, because of the offense, but also because of who is offended.

      We do not realize the severity of offenses committed toward a holy and perfect and eternal God. And we in of ourselves can do nothing about it. God has provided the solution. Just as we cannot create ourselves or even do anything that is really that great (we die without a few days of water! REALLY!?), we cannot save ourselves.

      But God has made a way, through faith, for anyone to reach out and grab God's offer of salvation. Faith, for many reasons, one of which being it takes our eyes off of ourselves, it counters pride, and it turns us away from self-sufficiency and self-sufficiency is utterly dead at it's conclusion.

      Jesus did what we couldn't; while we were yet sinners He came and died, satisfying the wrath of a Holy God, who cannot in His perfection, ignore anything, while also living a perfect life, and in doing so was able to recon that to our account that we could be reconciled to God and being the restoration process of what was our original intent - fellowship with a loving God who desires us more than we could possibly imagine.

      I would caution not to expect or qualify your salvation or walk ON EXPERIENCE. EXPERIENCE NEGATES FAITH. That is not to say that experience cannot follow and validate that which one already has faith in. But experience-seeking is a very dangerous thing if one is to seek humility, run from pride and walk by faith. The fact is we all are born into iniquity, shaped in sin, and are caged within these fallen bodies of countless shortcomings; these suits of corruption.

      You come to God and receive his helping hand through Christ and His Spirit by faith, and you continue to walk by faith. The fallen body we are born into profits nothing - at least not on the grand scale. We may do minor things here and there but in the ultimate scheme of time, as all things are meeting their ultimate destiny of dust and rust, their is nothing we can do of any lasting circumstance outside of God. When all is burned away, all that will remain is that which can measure to God's perfect and holy standard; that being the new heaven and new earth, and our new incorruptible bodies that will surround our current spirits that can only be livened by God's Holy Spirit.

      And a note on God's Spirit; that is the only source of true life as it is the source of all origination. God is the source of all things and if any thing is said to have any thing that can be called good, it is because it borrowed or received that good from the original source. That original source, being God, is the definition of good. We as humans do a pretty horrible job of deciding and qualifying what is actually truly good.

      Woah sorry for the rant. Could not help myself! Look forward to any constructive responses :)

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      the2ndbirth 8 months ago

      If you guys want to find God and experience Him, you have to follow the directions. 1st..make sure you hold no UNforgivenss towards anyone. Forgive anyone who has every trespassed against you. 2nd Change your mind about sin (repent) toward God, while believeing that his Son Jesus died and rose again as payment for sin. You must not only believe that He died, but KNOW that He is alive NOW. 3rd. You WILL recieve the Holy Spirit and be able to do certain miracles just by speaking them. That right there, is an awesome God. Saving us by repentance and faith in his Son alone, and giving us some really cool gifts once we have received the Holy Spirit. Best high I ever had.

      If a Christian judges you harshly, more than likely, he is not yet born again. When someone become born again, it is a supernatural event that will rock their world.

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      Eternal Moon 8 months ago

      As a witch myself i actively keep everybody mouth shut. Since 12 people knows that Im a witch and 3 wanting me to teach them, Im confused. I need help!!!

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      Wicca Chick 8 months ago

      I have kept my broom in the closet, but I want to know how to at least tell my severely Christian dad that I'm Wiccan, because I don't like hiding stuff from him, for fear of breaking his trust. Two of my friends have already "figured it out" that I'm a witch, but I keep telling them they're wrong. I'm so confused as to what to do!

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      KJBFisher 10 months ago

      My personal favorite could be #11:

      "You should just pray to god to help you with your problems."

      Pray to their God they mean! A God I do not believe in. Such mind numbing, clueless, ignorance is just down right insulting and disrespectful! I get it from friends, and relatives who ought to know better because I quit hiding that I am Wiccan a long time ago. To me it is like a Muslim saying to a Christian, "Convert to Islam and praise Allah or die." They just cannot grasp the concept that not everyone believes the same way they do. It just serves to make me feel more alienated and alone than I already do. Of course their answer to that would be to, "come back to God and good Christian ways. Go to church." And do what? Live a lie? That would be a sin. I was raised Baptist so I know what a sin is.

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      Natalucci 11 months ago

      Can I ask, is there any thing I can do to conceive a girl ??? I've been trying to eat the certain foods & times of the month and all that.............anything else someone can tell me that worked for them ???

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      Limpet 12 months ago

      Don't forget that Christians were also martyred for their beliefs from the 11th century through to the 15th century. Look up the Waldensians, Hugeneots and Lollards. Even Quakers were given a hard time by overzealous magistrates right up until I688.

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      StacyF 12 months ago

      I cannot thank you enough for putting this out there. I am a descendant of the salem witches and you should see the looks on people's faces when I tell them that. I grew up christian myself too and although I didn't attend a christian college I studied scripture at length and compared it in all languages it was ever in.

      I'm from an ancient celtic bloodline so witchcraft is in my genes. No sense trying to ignore it, I embrace it. My ancestors were amazing healers and were put to death on just an accusation of being evil. Sadly there are still many today who would do the same to me if given the chance. The lack of knowledge and ignorance religions plague humanity with get innocent people killed. This madness has to end. I am sick of hearing how evil I am and getting offers for free exorcisms.

      I do not know why but you are right Christians do this the most. I never get backlash from any other group but Christians. When I was a christian all my life. I saw how quickly some will turn on you. The hypocrisy of Christians in America is astounding. If they actually practiced what they preach they would advocate for world peace. Stop paying their taxes that fund genocidal wars. They would rather spend their time arguing about who is the anti-christ and when the rapture is coming. Sad world this is. Religion is POISON

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      Lee Phillips 12 months ago

      I'm Christian, but I've taught myself to respect all religions because when it comes down to it, we're all human and that's what matters. My religion used to brainwash me to believe that "non-Christians" are going to hell and for that reason I was terrified to talk to anyone that isn't Christian because I couldn't bare the thought of anyone going to hell. Then I made a friend who was a Hindu, and that really opened my eyes to how amazing people can be regardless of religion and I still talk to her to this day. Because of her and my own maturation, I've learned to respect every religion, and most religions fascinate me to the point that I can read and learn things about them for hours. I'm now a very open minded Christian and I believe that everyone (except the worst of people) goes to heaven. A person'/ religion doesn't matter, what matters is their personality (whether they're nice and open minded or not).

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      Alan gibson 14 months ago

      Someone want answers on religion if I told you the truth no one would believe me anyway. I do have to answer so at last we could bring back our god of love and why was he banished from us all, god of love - loved his wife and never wanted any other except the love of his wife one day she became ill god of love started to panic and asked the other gods to form a miracle to save his wife but the other gods said but why do you want to save you wife there are many who can satisfy your lust why is she so different and special to you. god of love said a man should marry once to carry the name forward in life than a mixed relationship. the other gods replied as long as man enjoys his women he is doing no harm. god of love said I am the god of love and I want my people to love their first love than sharing others and women spawning children with different fathers will break the law of religion, the other gods replied again then if it happens then let it be and to show you god of love we will not help your wife and you must learn our ways of satisfaction of what we choose to satisfy our lust. God of love wife died and he was devastated losing the woman he loved so dearly he got very angry with the other gods and for that they banished the god of love and said no one will ever pray to you ever again and you will live on to the end of time with a different Name we will call you and your prayers will never be answered by your people ever again we cast you a fallen Angel, the missing link and why he is never around to save us, we all in life pray to the wrong God of our world and why there is so much hate and ignorance in our world the Rapes the Killings the Thieves and the Wars thrive in our world today with greed too and without god of love. our world is dying very quickly because of the gods who thought they had the answers to everything, the missed pages are now back, but is there any hope or chance of saving our god of love. I can't answer that only to the people of our World who can do that, and who is the person that no one has ever praised to the lord forgiveness, this was the true bible and the one we see now was phyxius definition by corruption of religion,

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      Alan gibson 14 months ago

      Pagan witches and all others are Spiritual like myself. and yes people never understood the gifts we had put them to death by burning them to the stake, they are now called by spiritual reincarnation as the shadow people and they are still angry and for those who see them comes from their ancestries who put them to death and the curse was placed by them at the stake.

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      Limpet 14 months ago

      Merrie we meet.

      As the is now a lull in newer articles on the hub pages i've been looking at previous postings of articles pertaining to folklore and also the metaphysical. I'm more at home in the paranormal/supernatural than the humdrum of normality.

      many blessings to all kindred spirits.

      Limpet

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      Mackenzie Sage Wright 14 months ago

      Ha, I came across this again and it made me laugh because I just recently came across someone who said a couple of things on your list to me. So true!

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      Nina 14 months ago

      Wicca is the most peaceful religion it's very similar to Buddhism and for ppl to say otherwise then they absolutely know nothing about it. It's a beautiful religion and unlike Christian faith we don't try to brain wash people. People are welcome to their own opinions but plz don't smear the name of us good wiches. I'm a very proud Wiccan and I do not push what I believe in on anyone that includes my lil one which she too wants to follow in the Wiccan faith. So I'm very proud of being a witch and my lil one as well. Blessed be.

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      Josephine 15 months ago from New England

      @KnowNotAll, well said! Arguing one set of beliefs based on the assumption that everyone shares them really isn't very effective. And I'm glad more people are becoming aware of the differences between witchcraft in general and Wicca. You would be surprised how many people who consider themselves witches don't know it!

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      KnowitNotAll 15 months ago

      @Menelius Old Pagans from my home area believed that the god of shapeshifting (Yuriya) was meschivious but he was not the devil. That is because Pagans and Christians do not share the same beliefs. So your argument is invalid.

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      KnowitNotAll 15 months ago

      Don't mean to frighten anyone but I grew up surrounded by witches and most of them were Christian. Yep, the ones that went to church and believed in God and Jesus. Only a small number were atheist. Wicca is something I first heard of about 7 or 8 years ago. Witchcraft has nothing to do with worshiping anything, no devil and no god(s). Any worshiping would have to do with religion. In case of Wicca they do worship gods but worshiping the devil is not part of their religion. Wicca and Witches I knew are very different though. Wicca has a lot going on with altars and all the other stuff, very much like religions. They are also super harmless since they don't believe in hurting people. Witches in general can choose when they want to be bad and not just choose one side, bad or good. I know a lot about Witchcraft I've observed but there is little that I know about Wicca. Interesting people, though.

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      Limpet 15 months ago

      My actual involvement with real life 'wyches' in the past has been both manevolent and also benevolent. To illustrate my point here firstly, i have never been appealing to the opposite gender to the point of experiencing a very lonely 'tyme' when it should for me have been the best years of my life. When i contacted a Wiccan high priestess informally for advice she informed me that in order to progress i had to perform unpaid work for her until such tyme as i was ready to be ready to advance in 'the craft'. When i went for one of my frequent readings with a reliable clairvoyant i was told that there was a particular very powerful group who were only using me and in fact hated the sight of me. But there was one very adept lady who did confide in me telling me that i had suffered too much and unfortunately for me would never achieve the enlightenment i was expecting. So now i am trying to develope my own sixth sense and try to forget the bad 'olde' days.

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      Alan 15 months ago from Tasmania

      @ Menelius: you seem to be confused by definition, like many people who claim to be christians here. How can you be confused into thinking your "Christian beliefs" are not religion?

      Please, see for your self, this first definition I can across: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/religion

      It tells us precisely the meaning of religion. But you are correct in telling your fellow christians to back off from judgment of those who believe differently.

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      Josephine 15 months ago from New England

      I appreciate your input, Manelius, and you're certainly entitled to believe whatever you like, but to say that I'm partly correct is based purely on your interpretation as a Christian (which I was for many, many years) just as my interpretation of your God is based on my own beliefs. Lucifer is a deceiver to you, but to many of us he's the one who brought sentience to humanity while the Biblical god is the one who punished mankind for a problem he created. It's all a matter of perspective.

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      Menelius 15 months ago

      Hello

      As one who just started to delve into christian belief (NOT religion), I can say you are partly correct. You may not necessarily be willing to pray to the devil and his minions. Problem is, the devil is according to the Bible the greatest deceiver in the universe. Shapeshifting into something which resembles some of your gods is a feat he can do with greatest ease. And its not just the Bible: Theres a ghosthunting duo on youtube (The only ones I trust) who have encountered numberous legit paranormal activities. Now they didnt grow horns or loose their sanity in the end, but there were some minor possessions going on, and quite a lot of poltergeist activities too. Could be these were spirits who wanted to be left alone, could also be demons too.. Point is, we dont know, and man is always afraid of the unknown. But the bible tells us exactly how to protect ourselves from it, and preaches us to stay way from it. So thats exactly what we christians will do. Remember Lucifer is in our books the greatest deceiver, and he gains his strength through people who deny his existence.

      But now to the fellow christians who shout and scream against heathens and judge:

      You are nothing but hypocrites. Read Matthew 6:5, or better, read through the whole Matthew 6, if you want to know what I mean. I dont know how God may judge you, but I really think you are going the wrong way by pointing your fingers at others. Leave them be. They are non of your busyness. And if you still want to try and convert them... well, the way you are doing it now is certainly not productive.

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      Josephine 16 months ago from New England

      RaeAnn, wow, what a bizarre idea! Some of the stereotypes people perpetuate are just from a place of incomprehensible ignorance. I can't comprehend it, either.

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      Alan 16 months ago from Tasmania

      GraueHexe, thank you for that impassioned account of your early life.

      My thoughts are that those "Christians," feeling they are so blessed by forgiveness, the Love of Christ, being right with their God, etc..... they would regard their "beliefs" as not in any way superstitious.

      Their superstition has a direct, adverse affect on the lives of others whom they regard as "not saved," and therefore inferior to their Christian standing.

      In my opinion they are thus blind, ignorant, self-deceiving, displaying anything but a fearless outlook on life.

      How much of this religiosity, cloaked with a false name of "faith," is prevalent throughout the United States?

      I don't accept the basis of any of those superstitions, even yours, but your Wiccan beliefs seem much more loving and accepting that the Christian ones, in my view, so I respect what you have written.

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      GraueHexe 16 months ago

      I absolutely loved this article! I grew up in a Christian household, but I've known I was a witch since I was 4 years old. We had blackberries and raspberries in our backyard and I brought my basket out there to pick some and when I reach out my hand a woman glowing in all white with raven hair told me that I have to ask the plant if I can take the berries, but I wouldn't hear the answer I would feel it. So I did and I felt this warm energy rush over me and I knew it was okay to take some berries. Then she told me to thank the plant and that I should give something back to the plant, and told me to run inside and get an egg and come back and then she kissed my forhead. When I came out she was gone but I knew I had to do somehow (now I know she had imparted wisdom into me). I cracked open the egg and scooped out the yoke, then poured the white of the egg under the bush. I continued to learn when I could and when I was 12 I had about 6 books, some herbs, and some spell boxes. My mother, a devout Christian, found them, flew my aunt up from FL to NJ where we lived and they both confronted me. They made me smash the boxes and burn everything in the fireplace as they placed their hands on me. Then to make sure I wasn't possessed by the devil they made repeat the Lords prayer over and over and over again. Sunday happened to be the next day and they paraded me in front of the entire congregation. I was surrounded by I dont even know how many people laying hands on me and praying, some people refused to get that close to me. It was a small town even after that if one of those people saw me around town they would turn and walk the other way, stop and make me stand there while they LOUDLY prayed over me, or they looked terrrified and just kept coming while they vowed their heads and prayed silently with their lips moving. My mother had institutionalized at a religious facility for 30 days because she caught me with another book again about 3 weeks later. I have nothing against the Christian faith, but most of them are quite hypocritical when it comes to throwing stones at glass houses of what they consider sinful. Even now I wear my jewelry proudly and 50% of the time i go to the grocery store some tells me, I'm going to hell, I'm lucifer's mistress, I'm just another demon in the dark one's legion, and so many more. I'm just tired of it. I'm a really nice person and I dont bind, banish, or hex anyone unless they truly deserve it, and to this day I've only had to bind one person and thats it. People are scared of what they dont understand. The Bible has them completely closed minded to our kind. Whatever happened to love thy neighbor as you would love thyself?

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      RaeAnn 16 months ago

      i simply don't understand. i found a sigh claiming pagans/wiccans will crap in your church or holy grounds. It was a sight run by Baptist! and i have a christian familywho are generally kind no matter how judgmental they are. So if a person is supposed to love his neighbors as they love themselves...why are they so....hateful? I hate stereotypes....it's depressing...i simply...can't comprehend their hatred .

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      GADFLY 17 months ago

      Some moths ago an issue arose where student of a U.K. campus voted to put a ban on abusive free speech. The Establishment media are still carping on about this subject.

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      Alan 19 months ago from Tasmania

      The big question is: If those persons with hate claim to be christian, and think they have "God" on their side, what a weak and inconsequential "God" that must be!

      I mean, what are they afraid of? If their faith/belief is no stronger than that, then why not go and have some real, friendly, exciting, revealing, enlightening communion with people who only have love in their hearts?

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      Nightcat 19 months ago

      I loved this article! I started over on Squidoo, but the moment I switched over to HP I noticed a huge uptick in hate mail in my comments sections from Christians. I don't care what anyone believes, more power to them, but I don't appreciate having it forced on me, either. I'm never sure what they think hate will accomplish, either.

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      christboy88 20 months ago

      "They have individual personalities, stories, and yes, sometimes flaws, but that complexity is why we are drawn to them."

      Sounds like a genius philosophy to me.

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      Bla Blorgenstein 20 months ago

      I also get a lot of "You're a Pagan/Witch? How do you make a love spell?" LOL or the "Can you see the future?" It's hard to teach that Pagan is a non-specific umbrella term for any number of traditions and beliefs, and Witch is like a job title for a practitioner of magic/energy manipulation.

      I still can't get over the conversation I had last summer. I bumped in to my neighbour, and she happily decided to tell me about how she came to love Jesus (her sister had her read the Bible and told her to treat it like a storybook rather than analyze what she was reading). That was all well and good and everything. (I think people do better mentally when they have someone to please and something to look forward to.) but she started getting preachy about how other people were living their lives, while assuming she was talking to another Christian. I got uncomfortable with what she was saying, and I excused myself from the conversation. She got defensive and asked why I was leaving, while she pushed a little more, so I told her I read the Bible, and enjoyed going to Bible classes weekly after school, but I didn't agree with it anymore because my life experiences brought me down a different path. She apologized to me for my falling away from God, because in her eyes I had lost my way and was someone to be pitied. As if my own spiritual connection and belief system was without value or worthy of any respect or consideration and my life was that much worse for not being a Christian. I have a hard time being around that kind of arrogance and ignorance.

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      Ian Stuart Robertson 22 months ago from London England

      If you take a wander around Olde London towne, you'd notice many buildings from the 18th and 19th centuries adorned with pagan sculptures and decorative symbology. This came about at a tyme when there were 300 churches in the city, some with stained glass windows depicting dragons, the 'green man' and a lady in armour with a sword. It was Oliver Cromwell in his role as the Lord Protector decreed that all vestiges of the pagan realm be destroyed and this included the 'holy thorn' bush at Glastonbury in Somerset. But sympathetic locals grafted a cutting back and it sprouted and budded twice a year in fact! Alas, in modern tymes it keeps getting vandalised by bigots however there are now several examples kept elsewhere.

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      Nivasi 23 months ago

      It simply amazes me of the ignorance in today's society..

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      Josephine 24 months ago from New England

      I'm not 100% sure I know what you're asking so correct me if need be, but would I have published this blog if the Christians saying and doing these things behaved more like Christ? The answer is yes, because many if not all of these things in and of themselves are not Christ-like things to say.

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      Josephine 24 months ago from New England

      No need to apologize, and thanks for your comment. :) Christians and pagans have more in common than not, I think. I look forward to a point when we'll all be able to relate to each other as people, and see past the labels to the souls within. Whether it's Jesus or Thor, I like to think that belief in a higher power should motivate us to treat one another with more kindness than we often do.

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      Josephine 24 months ago from New England

      We do, but I think because paganism is an umbrella term encompassing so many different faiths with many different values (another reason it's silly when people discriminate against us, since individual sects often have far more in common with Christianity than with other pagan religions,) they tend to be more grassroots movements and less associated with a particular deity or belief system. For example, in a local village that is mostly made up of new age and pagan businesses, there are frequent charity drives and environmental campaigns like the ones you've described, but the focus is more on doing the things than promoting a pagan agenda, so to speak.

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      Josephine 24 months ago from New England

      I agree that love is greater than the things that divide us, including religion or lack thereof. It certainly wasn't my intention to say that all Christians behave this way (as you said, I'm married to one who doesn't, so I know this quite well. :) But, just like any minority group, the fact that the majority also experiences discrimination doesn't negate the fact that minority groups face it in a systemized way. I hope I made it clear that if you are not the type who does this, this article isn't about you.

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      Josephine 24 months ago from New England

      I am not inclined to be saved by the one supposedly creating the situation from which I need to be saved, no. Come judgment day, I might have my regrets, but choosing to believe in a loving God instead of a capricious disciplinarian won't be one of them. :)

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      Josephine 24 months ago from New England

      Asking the devil for help? I could use help repairing my washing machine, is that the kind of errand he does? Just kidding. I am very familiar with that verse. I grew up Pentecostal and let me tell ya, never have I experienced more demonic activity and spiritual oppression than among that sect. And I very much believe in God, I just don't believe in man's spiritual divisions, AKA religion. Have a nice day!

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      Anurag 2 years ago

      I have read your post, and being a christian myself (who virtually believes many of the the accusations you have listed - I'm admitting it, knowing this will be unpopular), I want to ask you - Would this blog have been published had you seen more of Christ in all those Christians? (Instead of the condemnation and judgment.)

      (This was on my mind for a while, to just write to you.)

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      Alan 2 years ago from Tasmania

      Great Hub. Sorry I missed it all while it was happening... but at least I missed the c..p put out by K&T.

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      Ta-Iset 2 years ago

      I read the whole thread. I have something to say to Kiss and Tales or whatever the name is, and I welcome you to try and sway me from my path. I have watched documentaries, upon reading many books, forums, and so on. There is no evidence that Egypt had slaves, let alone Hebrew slaves. They paid for the labor they received from common folk. The bible is mistaken in this depiction of Ancient Egypt. I follow the path of Isis and Osiris, along with Horus. I love their love story, and as it is incestuous, I like to think of it another way. We are all brothers and sisters, so technically we are all marrying our brother or sister. I find this beautiful and not at all the way I'm sure you're going to take it.

      It's beautiful because to love one another as family, and to recognize that we are all family is what religion is based on. Love, love, love. I love my husband, he is a Christian, he doesn't go to church, he doesn't read the bible, but he was brought up on it. His mother is very religious as well. When she found out I was Pagan, she was upset. She had said many things that hurt me, like I was ruining my sons life by worshiping the devil, and casting spells... I had told her that I don't worship a devil. I worship Isis and Osiris, I told her to read about them. I didn't know that she would become even more angry lol she said the story was hideous because they are brother and sister.

      I also wanted to say that no one was attacking you KT, you started trying to convert people after the hub author had asked for whatever religion you are not to try and convert, because we are strong in our beliefs and it is just very annoying. You have been saying so many hateful things, and you can't even see that you have. You think that you're helping us find our way back to truth, when the truth is a lie. Your truth is a lie! You won't even try and research it. I'm not trying to offend if that's how it is coming off, I'm trying to educate.

      The bible has been proven to be stories made up from other religions. Some of the historical events like the flood is true, but most of the people who apparently lived no one can find any evidence of. I really would like for us all the coexist peacefully. I would like it if we could openly practice and worship the way people do in churches. I haven't been to a real pagan temple, they have them down in the states, but here in Canada I haven't come across any...

      One of my goals was to open up one, one day, I don't think I will be able to though.... I don't know how to run one, or finance one, or what I'd do when it is opened. I would like to find out how to go about it though and then maybe I can figure out how to open one... Currently I am still learning more about my path.

      I follow the Ancient Egyptian path, I'm trying to learn as much as I possibly can about them, and their culture, religion, and everything I can get my hands on. I find it fascinating and beautiful in all regards. I would like to hear more from LG, I find you very fascinating as well, and I love learning about other paths and religions.

      Until there is a reply, blessed be and love and light :)

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      DW Davis 2 years ago from Eastern NC

      I am a Catholic Christian but I very much believe in the type of evangelism Jesus taught (at least the way I see it). Let the way you live your life be your testimony. If someone asks you why you live as you do, offer to tell them about your faith. If they don't want to listen, let it be. Metaphorically beating them over the head with your faith doesn't get you anywhere except asked to leave.

      I have known a handful of Pagan's and Wicca who were open about their practice and they were all respectful, hardworking, people; considerate and friendly towards others. One was a girl I dated, another was a dear colleague I used to work with. When someone tries to tell me that all Pagans, Wicca, and Witches are bad I simply point out that they should learn about what they're talking about before making such statements.

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      tudor109 2 years ago

      Thank you for posting this.

      Reading it reminded me of an old high school friend who had been wiccan and then converted back to Christianity. It kind of made me sad because she'd never tell me the truth about Wicca after that, just a bunch of slurs against this community that had welcomed her.

      I've always been interested in religions and I enjoyed reading this hub very much. Thank you!

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      Liz Elias 2 years ago from Oakley, CA

      Merry meet!

      This was a well-done and well-thought-out piece. You stated your case calmly and rationally.

      I do not understand the rash of comments trying to rebut everything you carefully explained. I can only infer that those people prefer to remain uneducated, for the actual truth scares them.

      When you consider the bloody history of Christianity (and a few other mainstream religions, with their "convert or be killed" M.O.), it seems a bit like the case of the pot calling the kettle black.

      As an atheist following the generic Pagan path, I understand your feelings well. I'm what one person described as a "solitary eclectic." My main mantra is "Do as ye will, nay harm ye none," which is a very similar phrasing to the saying you gave from the Wiccan Rede.

      Nature's creations are my soul's temple; not deities.

      I have no problem with anyone's religion. I only have a problem when they want to force it down my throat. I don't do that to others, and I expect the same courtesy in return.

      Voted up, interesting, useful, awesome, shared and pinned.

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      ttbpae16 2 years ago

      I don't know how much right or authority I have to say this, but I would like to take it upon myself to deeply apologize to those who have suffered at the hands of those who call themselves Christians and have no tolerance for us.

      I myself am a practicing Christian, and I like to think of myself as respectful enough of other religions and beliefs; compassion, love, and peace are what Jesus professed after all. I truly hope soon you will be able to express yourself freely in your beliefs; whatever they may be, I am sure a pure and earnest heart is always valued in the Lord's eyes.

      Very interesting hub, by the way. Hope no one minds me adding my two cents. And I mean no offense when I say, God bless.

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      Ian Stuart Robertson 2 years ago from London England

      At risk of contradicting myself in previous comments i do admit that i might have expressed myself in a different way. Let us hope we can keep this thread going a little longer.

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      social thoughts 2 years ago from New Jersey

      This is a very well-written article! I have experienced these, too. I had never considered your point in #8 about Christians "cursing us." That is brilliant! Thank you for sharing! Was that something you figured out on your own or did someone else bring that to your attention? :)

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      Cadence W 2 years ago

      Sorry for the double post, either way glad that the madness is over.

      Up until March of last year I was a Christian but things stopped making sense and I felt that this wasn't the religion for me at all. So I did some reading about Paganism and Wicca, read about spell work, various deities and such. Since then I call myself a polytheistic Eclectic Pagan and my life has gotten a little better, I mean I still feel hurt and depressed at times but who doesn't? Thankfully my parents are understanding folks, they respect my beliefs but I just don't practice in front of them. But I haven't faced too much flack for my beliefs but I've gotten the old "Can you hex my cheating ex-wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend?" nonsense and the obligatory "You will burn in Hell." But oh well can't please everyone.

      I'm not perfect, in my short 19 years of life I've made mistakes, lied, hell I've even violated the rede once but I'm making peace with myself and vow to never mess up again. Even though sometimes I just can't tolerate fools and end up going off on someone who bugs me. But for me I just feel better physically and spiritually now and I strive to continue my currant path.

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      Cadence W 2 years ago

      KT sounds about as genuine as a snake bite.

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      Ian Stuart Robertson 2 years ago from London England

      The coven nearest to where i live perform all ritual stark naked with the exception of the High Priestess who is garbed in traditional cloak with a hood attached. In my novellete 'Cauldron of souls' i wrote about Merkah a High Priestess in the Atlantean tradition. Rollo her slave ceremonialy castrates himself to prove his loyalty to Merkah. Together they travel through time on a series of adventures including to Camelot in the times of King Arthur and the knights of the Round table. In more recent writings i have created an 'all female' secret society called the Amazonnian Order of the Labyris comprising women from every 'walk of life' who set oput with goals to achieve.

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      Ian Stuart Robertson 2 years ago from London England

      Quite right! Costs nothing for good manners.

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      Gadfly 2 years ago from Olde London Towne

      Greetings my little darklings

      The golden rule reads, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I'll tell you the silver rule next and then possibly the copper rule.

      sweet dreams

      the gadfly

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      SFIAOgirl021 2 years ago

      I actually want to comment my responses to each of the 10 things because I've been studying Wicca for almost 7 months now (hoping to finish my year and a day studies when it's time I'm studying ALOT of books) but if I capitalize the G in God it's because I believe one should show respect for other religions even if they don't do it back well here goes.... 1. As for this question I'd have to say I try my best not to hate anyone I have some ppl that I very (+50 verys) much so dislike (with good reason) but I don't actually hate them and I'll even attempt to be nice to them even though they'll always stab me in the back for it later I think it's wrong to hate because that is what brews all the hate in the world 2. I agree with what you say here I've read through the Bible once completely and several other books many times before seeing as I was raised with Christians I can quote stories and scriptures better then alot of ppl I'm no expert of course but I know the Bible I've read it and studied it and it's just not for me I hate when ppl r like "if u just read this u'll get close to God again" or whatever something to that effect I find it soo annoying I'm sry but I do because all I want to say to them is I've read it and I know it I know stories even ppl who r Christians have to think a sec before they remember I'm not reading it anymore just go away I don't want to be rude to them though so I'll end up saying "no thanks" and leaving 3. I think this is one of the few that offends me the most I've tried being a "good Christian" and once that high I kept getting wore off after I went back home from whatever retreat or service I went to I'd be right back where I started and kicking myself for getting swept away again I don't want a religion where I'll get this high feeling like I'm flying only to crash back down the second the service is over I want a religion that I can get involved in I have to study and learn and it feels right to me I've spent my whole life searching for it and it'll just fit me like a puzzle piece well I'm glad to say I think I've found what I'm looking for and I'm sry but Christianity just ain't it ppl I'm leaning towards Wicca (always felt drawn to it) 4. Since I've discovered Wiccans don't really believe in the devil this point just makes me want to laugh if someone brings it up lol! 5. I agree here is well light and darkness is a balance yes I think it's possible that one side will rear it's head and u'll go one way strongly for alil bit but over all I think everyone in existence has a balance of light and dark in us I just see it as the yin yang symbol when I think of it 6. This is another one that makes me upset ppl shouldn't judge what they don't know it's just a saying that I picked up somewhere and I believe in it if u don't understand something I don't believe u should have any right to judge it because u r judging something u r ignorant about and the whole concept is just made stupid when u try judging that about sums my feelings (the short version) for this number 7. I agree with this one it's not a phase it's a lifestyle true faith isn't a phase it's who we r and what we believe and there's no changing it it's like being gay or straight or other or a man or woman it's who we r and that isn't changing ppl 8. As for this I'd be hilarious to scare somebody just alil saying "I'm gonna curse u" and then do that whoooooo thing and wiggle my fingers at them but that'd be wrong and just plain mean even though I'd lmao at it I'd never actually say that to somebody although I know somebody who did something similar it was my mom and Jehovah's Witnesses kept coming to our door and my mom is Catholic (yeah ik got it rough in my house although she's pretty understanding my mom's awesome but anyways) one day she answered the door and the JW did their lil talk or whatever and she's like "I'm not interested in anything u have to say plzz leave and never come back" and even said it politely but the lady wouldn't shut it so my mom wiggled her fingers at the lady and said and I quote "I'm Catholic whooooo" and that woman ran outta there like she was on fire my mom was like "I'm sooo going to hell for that but it was too good to pass up" I'd never actually do that to somebody because of the Wiccan rede though if I cursed someone I'd have too much Karma coming back at me and I don't want that! 9. I acknowledge other religions and respect others beliefs to call what I believe silly and etc, is just disrespectful 10. with my big sarcasmness I have going on I'd tell them "darn u've figured out my plan" and then laugh well I probably wouldn't but I'd want to for like a half second but most likely I'd stay serious and say no because Wiccans/pagans/witches we all look and act like normal ppl and I don't appreciate ur stereotyping and then I'd probably just walk away

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      OdinsRaven 2 years ago from Nova Scotia

      If Kristjins want to whine at heathens about the virtue of their pale Christ and an alien faith that invaded the lands of our ancestors from the middle east I say let them. All one needs to do is take a casual stroll through history and affirm they are clearly a faith who spread based on deception, dishonor, dysfunction and good old fashioned ethnic cleansing. If they don't like to be judged based on historical truth, research and analytical thinking perhaps they should practice a little modern tolerance and not hassle us.

      Words are weapons and the Hovamol teaches us never to leave home with out our weapons ready.

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      RavynBloodoath 2 years ago from Burien, Washington

      I am severely late to the tail-gate on this one. I wish I would have seen this months ago! I am surprised no one brought up Pharisees to the "preachers" here. It really drives me CRAZY when "Christians" start inflammatory comments and then do the backstroke. Many of the Christians that post those kind of comments will not listen to reason. They seem to feel that attacking our beliefs is perfectly okay, but scream persecution when we question them.

      Many do not take into account that a great many of us come from devout Christian backgrounds. Many of us are also "seekers" and seek knowledge in various subjects before we turn on the mouth spigot. Paganism to me is a calling back to Nature. To my Mother and my Father. To the Earth that needs its caretakers! My relationship with the Lord and Lady lifted me out of serious depression. Has it cured all my ills? Naw, most of that is up to me. Do I seek salvation in some afterlife? No. That is not my end purpose in this world! Am I good to get cosmic kudos? No. I do good things and help people because that is what feels right and just to me.

      I will not say all Christians are bad, because they aren't. I will say, in my experience, there are a growing number of zealots and extremists that we should watch carefully. They tend to pass on their hate like a plague. I have seen wonderful Christians turn (many were friends and family). I will keep my faith in what I know to be right for me and let those of other faiths believe as they wish. As long as they do not try to hurt me, my family, or my community I will be a duck and let it roll off my back. *QUACK QUACK*

      Love y'all!!!

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      Ian Stuart Robertson 3 years ago from London England

      Thank you very much indeed for my reinstatement on these rather illuminating pages. It is quite lonely out in the wilderness these past few months. I have been 'going over' all of my previous posts and must say that i have made some comment i would have misgivings over and also others which make me think 'Oh! Did i say that?

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      Ian Stuart Robertson 3 years ago from London England

      Actually i never heard the term 'pagan' used in my formative years until we learned in school that the barbarian tribes of antiquity were in fact pagans. However the term 'heathen' was used to describe a non believer and this was also used as a description for naughty boys. Nowadays of course we have a pagan federation and the belief in is accepted by courts of law. Hope this has been illuminating to some.

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      Ian Stuart Robertson 3 years ago from London England

      merrie we meet

      many blessings to all kindred spirits

      in light

      limpet

      slave to the faery queene

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      Gadfly 3 years ago from Olde London Towne

      Greetings my little Darklings!

      The ultimate authority on this topic i believe would be Doctor Christina Oakley-Harrington who is a well respected identity in the Pagan community. In her autobiography Christina asserts the principles of silence, secrecy and satyre.

      see you in some secret place soon!

      the gadfly

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      SFIAOgirl021 3 years ago

      i have made an account now i hope the author approves my earlier guest comments and i do apologize if i have said anything offensive that isn't my intention for looking into these Wiccan articles i come to read and learn and share thoughts and opinions in kindness i don't wish to bash others or be rude

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      SFIAOgirl021 3 years ago

      and for those who want to say my description of abuse was too logical to be true i apologize if it sounded that way but what happened to me is real being logical and flat i guess is the only way i know how to talk about it because if i get too involved in talking deeply about it it harms my mental stability and i've worked for years to get it built up and i'm not going to let it fall now and yes i am happy to say i am now mentally stable i'm not doing any of that harmful stuff anymore but as far as what i believe i'm being open minded and exploring to find out what it is i believe

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      Jean DAndrea 3 years ago from Victoria, Australia

      Very interesting and well written hub. As a Pagan, I can relate to much of this. On one occasion a lady near to me in a car park saw my pentagram, and informed me that I was in danger, and that she'd pray for me. Wasn't sure whether to be insulted or amused, so just said "Thankyou".

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      Gadfly 3 years ago from Olde London Towne

      Greetings my little Darklings!

      sticks and stones may break my bones

      but cheek will never hurt me.

      sweet dreams

      gadfly

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      Gadfly 3 years ago from Olde London Towne

      Greetings my liitle Darklings!

      Having just returned from Glastonbury on one of my frequent sojurns, it was extremely sad to see how points of interest are rapidly becoming theme parks and how New Age genre is heavily corporatised.

      Trust no one

      the gadfly

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      DarkeyedAngel 3 years ago

      In conclusion with my previous post, I was curious if Wiccans or Pagans or people of the Old and yes first organized religion have charity groups the way Christians and other religions do? I have yet to see any or know of so if you do, could you please tell me and if you don't maybe you should start one. There are many out there in Christ's name that do good and help and perhaps to help or end the stigma of withcraft and devils and all that hoopla a charity could show you are good and are doing good. Afterall witches say you can do whatever you want as long as no harm comes from it. Maybe something with nature, harvest fest and meals for the needy, nature preservation, work for the sick and injured, natural homeopathic help. Just a few ideas...it could turn out for the better. For all.

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      DarkeyedAngel 3 years ago

      I am a Christian and do not appreciate being lumped into your criticism and rhetoric that we all are so mean and against you. I fully honour Christ and may very well someday have to take the sword for him for which I will do but I also have studied other religions and Pagans, various types all over the world, and realize that each religion, no matter, all have different starts, centers, but they have the same end. We all want good for us and family and the world and to be reborn in the beauty of the afterlife. With that I go about smiling to people, even if they don't smile back. I try to be half cup full, even when you watch news of planes going into buildings. I don't sit around hunting witches, cursing them out, where would one find the time anyway lol. I studied and even tho I don't find it for me and see many doing at least many I know, just for kicks, no sincerity involved, there are many things I do find interesting and the love of nature is big for me. I embrace that regardless. Maybe you come across ignorant people, who doesn't, I get it as a Christian too esp from atheists so I know how one feels, but there are more good people than bad, and if you look well enough you will find them. Please do not assume because one Christian says something, it stands for all of us just like when one witch does something. Hate only breeds hate and we have way too much of that now. I was always taught on the principles that Jesus loves, forgives, and wants the best for people. Afterall you love a Christian and he loves you, so love can conquer all. Whether you have a crucifix or a pentagram.

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      Gadfly 3 years ago from Olde London Towne

      Greetings my little Darklings!

      At one stage of my life journey i was known as 'fungus face' which was given to me by the daughters of a Lady whose flat i was renting at the tyme. I was paying less rent on the understanding that i perform chores for her at her house. When she discovered my books by Dion Fortune and Maxine Sanders she demanded to know "What is that all about?"

      Then she began calling me that terrible name up until the tyme i had to leave.

      sweet dreams

      the gadfly

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      Gadfly 3 years ago from Olde London Towne

      Greetings my little Darklings

      In the past the gratuitous critics would say 'Wendy the wyche' or a character from the Addams family but now the patronising term is 'Harry Potter'!

      sweet dreams

      the gadfly

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      Gadfly 3 years ago from Olde London Towne

      Greetings my little Darklings

      There has always been some sort of disparaging remark directed at those of us who practice 'the craft', by the 'unknowing'! Getting us confused with sleight of hand conjurors, magicians to entertain children etc. Now it is "Oh so you are into Harry Potter then!"

      Sweet dreams

      the gadfly

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      Baptist 3 years ago

      Yes The Bible Existed over 2000 YEARS AGO and all other religions books existed just maybe 50-1000 years ago so what do you believe the new or the old

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      Baptist 3 years ago

      LG I hope you repent that is also not right to be married to someone with different beliefs Same thing you just want what you want

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      Baptist 3 years ago

      Jesus Saved Us but you do not want to accept His gift of salvation You want to do whatever you want to do but Judgement Day Will come just remember that

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      Baptist 3 years ago

      Im A Baptist And What Your Doing Is Against God. But You Dont believe in God. When you do witch craft your Asking the devil for help But you dont Know it But All you need to do is in this Bible verse and Repent this sin that you are doing: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. If you want to read more verses just go to Walmart or any other stores and buy a KJV Bible I hope you have a great day

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      Ian Stuart Robertson 3 years ago from London England

      I could hardly define the temple of mithras as 'pagan' after all it was introduced to this country by a supposedly advanced civilzation for it's time.